The Blog

A Message to the BBC on Behalf of True Dog Lovers (Pedigree Dogs Exposed)

4.1.1

You are considering the future with regards to continuing to broadcast Crufts dog show in the wake of the explosive content of the documentary Pedigree Dogs Exposed.

You have stated that you have a two year agreement to continue to show Crufts.

You have seen the content of Pedigree Dogs Exposed. You, like us, MUST have felt the lump in your throat sitting through the extremely harrowing footage of dogs in agonising pain as a result of horrendous breeding practices.

You can not wait two years to make the RIGHT decision. Without reform of the Kennel Club, genuine, far reaching reform NOW, you can not, with any clear conscience continue to endorse the horrors as highlighted by this program.

Please, please do the right thing.

Because judging by the overly defensive position of the Kennel Club who don’t seem to be able to agree even between themselves on what they can and can’t do (Ronnie Irving chair of the KC stated on Pedigree Dogs Exposed that the KC could rule out father to daughter and brother to sister matings – whereas Caroline Kisco on News 24 today insisted that the KC could NOT outlaw this practice), you need to make the right move.

Dogs will thank you for it in the long run.

126 Comments

126 Comments

  1. Dougie weir

    August 19, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    i think it is time the KC changed there breed standards to promote fitter and helthier dogs, also an organisation this size could make a great difference in the health to there dogs and the education to there breeders (so do it!)

  2. Gnasher

    August 19, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Will the BBC do the right thing?

    Although on the ropes because of the programme, the KC is part of the establishment so will it just shrug it’s shoulders and say ‘so what’

    20 million pound headquarters, almost as plush as the RSPCA’S which was shown as well!

  3. Alison Green

    August 19, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    Least Mark Evans spoke honestly about the issues within breeds and stood up against it.

    Come On BBC! Stand against it too and help force a change.

  4. D Allen

    August 19, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    The BBC should stop showing Crufts. It is obvious that some breeders are involve in cruel and unecessary practices.
    As regards their contract I have noticed in the past the BBC have no trouble in dumping human presenters when they do something to offend the public, John Lesley springs to mind.
    Well Crufts is offensive to dog lovers and we are a large section of the public and we deserve to be listened to.

  5. Kim Bruce

    August 19, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Action needs to be taken. Surely the contract although has 2 years to run, must have a clause which means it can be termitate prior to completion?

    Come on BBC, don’t let your brand/reputation be damaged by association with Crufts – take action!

  6. emm

    August 19, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    there was a bit on the british bulldog, that went on about how its features helped it to hang on to bulls, and then the other person said that bulldogs orginally had longer noses and stuff. but wait a second here. British bulldogs are a SHOW breed, DESENDED from bullbaiting breeds, such as the olde english bulldogge, the british bulldog itself is NOT a bullbaiting breed

  7. Michelle

    August 19, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    I would love for the KC to admit they have bred dogs to the point of such bad health and physical deformation that they might as well kill them off now. But that would be a big ask and they are not in the habit of admitting they are wrong especially in the face of the fact they are the forefront of supposed definitive guides to dog breeds. I hope that the BBC show was able to define exactly how big the problem really is, and also to encourage more people with dogs that have these issues to step forward, and show how bad the situation really is. Speak up for the dogs that cannot speak for themselves and get the KC to change their ways before it is too late….

  8. D Porter

    August 19, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    Its a pity there was no time in the programme to broadcast some respectable breeders who ‘are’ part of healthy breeding programmes and are trying to eradicate breed genetic diseases, and some of the breeds that are able to live a normal life without being put on a cooler pad to prevent overheating. To ban Crufts is wrong, but, the lady with the CKS that knowingly used her dog at stud, and lied on camera, after he had been diagnosed with Syringomyelia should, in my opinion be struck off as a breeder, and never allowed to enter a KC registered show again.

    There are many many breeds out there that have problems, some worse than others, the GSD breeders must be blind if they cant see what they are doing to the breed, the dogs are cripples, and this breed, along with CKS and the bull breeds should be looked at in more detail and the KC standard amended so there are less dogs that are bought in this world that cannot live a normal life due to being bred to look like, for want of a better word ‘mutants’.

  9. Derek Scott

    August 19, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    I totally agree that the breeder who has used her CKS knowing that he has a genetic disease is disgraceful. Interestingly the UK cavalier forum is closed for new members, but it does state on their opening page that Cavaliers, like most other breeds have genetic diseases, but most can be treated. They need to get their heads out of the sand.

  10. A Wiggle

    August 19, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Before thinking about banning Crufts, perhaps the programme makers should consider showing many of the good breeders who are fighting hard to eradicate genetic disease in their breed?

  11. Jon Hill

    August 20, 2008 at 12:05 am

    Why have breed standards at all surely this is half the problem if a breeder has to keep to a standard then any pup that fall outside the standard is left to the breeders discretion like the poor old Ridgebacks.

    As for inbreeding and breeding when you know the stud has a genetic disability is downright criminal and reminds me of what hitler was trying to do back in the 30’s and 40’s oh my mistake the KC was doing it long before then it was then called Eugenics.

  12. S Price

    August 20, 2008 at 12:11 am

    Why ban Crufts, the programme highlighted some disturbing genetic disease in some breeds that certainly need attention, and some scrupulous breeders that dont give a dam ie: the cavalier breeder who knowingly bred from a dog with an awful crippling illness. But Crufts is a great British institution and not all breeders and/or dogs fall into this category.

  13. Skunk

    August 20, 2008 at 12:22 am

    Mr Weir I couldn’t agree more, as for the British Bulldog, the poor dam things are a caricature of what they once were, dogs of any breed should be able to function, bullbaiting obviously is not a function they are needed for, but for crying out loud these poor dogs can’t even walk round the park, where is their quality of life, I guess there health is irrelivant to the majority of breeders as long as the money train keeps rolling..
    BBC make a stand we condem the practices of other countries and there abuse of animals, yet to me this is no different

  14. cathy

    August 20, 2008 at 12:34 am

    This programme was one sided and VERY biased. Yes, there are pedigree breeds with problems, these problems have raised their ugly heads years ago and cannot be resolved overnight, the problems have to be BRED out of dogs and this can take years but to tar ALL pedigree breeders with the same brush is totally unfair. Alot of breeders are striving to improve their breed, I breed Rough Collies occasionally and show my dogs but I only breed when I want to carry on my line and NO, I do NOT inbreed and I am very careful as to which Sire I use on my Bitches. I also have my dogs hip scored (which I do not have to do) and all other health tests associated with the breed are carried out.
    As for the BBC, they make millions from airing CRUFTS, so dont think that they will stop televising it, their theory would probably be that when the contract is up people will have forgotten this damning programme. As for the RSPCA, how dare they! They are the worst offenders for putting ‘a healthy dog to sleep’, how can the RSPCA go on television and state that healthy dogs should NOT be put to sleep? IF THEY DONT REHOME THE DOGS IN THEIR CARE THEY ARE CONDEMNED TO DEATH. The Dogs Trust NEVER put a healthy dog to sleep. It would have been fairer if the programme had interviewed Breeders of Pedigree dogs that DO NOT have such horrific inherited problems as the Cavalier as well to show not ALL Pedigree breeds have these problems, but then that would not have made ‘good viewing?’. I for one would much rather have a PEDIGREE dog of which I can trust the temperament, health and good conformation than a cross bred dog of which I would not know the background and I am afraid to say, that yes, cross breeds have their problems too. As for stating that Dog Breeding is an INDUSTRY (?) most genuine breeders are HOBBY breeders, believe me, I do go out to work as well, my one litter every year or two makes NO profit at all, I breed occasionally as I adore dogs and my chosen breed, but at the sme time, I chose a breed WITHOUT the horrendous problems that were shown last night in a FEW pedigree breeds and I have NEVER had ANY problems with my dogs. Perhaps the BBC should now air a programme showing the other side of showing dogs, my dogs love showing, if they didn’t, I would not do it myself.

  15. Ryan O'Meara

    August 20, 2008 at 12:48 am

    Cathy,

    A couple of points – the BBC doesn’t ‘make millions from Crufts’ the BBC is publicly funded. It makes money based on the licence fee and it has to weigh up whether its licence fee payers wish to contribute to the type of programmes it airs. They have a public duty to review their position on the back of such a shocking documentary.

    And personally, I hope they make the right call.

    I have known for years, as have many people involved in and around dogs that there is a large swathe of people who have absolutely got their head in the sand on the issue of congenital disease and horrendous breeding practice within dogs. And last night’s show proved, for the public’s benefit, that those shady practices go right to the top.

    I am sick to death of hearing these accusations of bias – the programme had a point to make, it WAS an expose, it was not a documentary on the KC or for the benefit of the KC – it made it’s point. When it comes to bias from the BBC, the very fact that they have covered Crufts for decades, unopposed from the huge amount of public opposition to the practices that it condones, makes all accusations of unbalance laughable.

    Last night, some chickens came home to roost and the predicatble tirade of ‘it was biased’ ‘but look at all the good we’re doing’ just further the point that the programmers made i.e that the dog world is completely incapable of regulating itself. It has utterly failed and will continue. The apologists out there and making things far, far worse.

  16. Claire Petrie

    August 20, 2008 at 1:00 am

    I am shocked and appalled ( as I am sure that you are too ) at the conditions of the dogs of this programme last night. That poor Cavalier, the fitting Boxer, The Pug with all of his problems, the GSDs who would never (IMO) be able to work.

    Come on BBC, show that you care about these dogs, and take Crufts off.

  17. Sally Gutteridge

    August 20, 2008 at 1:02 am

    A very biased one sided programme. However much this was edited, there were certain breeders who appear to have their heads in the sand, and do not give a damm about their breed, how can you breed from a dog with a genetic defect when you have the welfare of the breed or dogs at heart? The lady with the Cavalier should be banned from keeping dogs for life. If you are going to highlight negatives there should be some positives too. On the positive side though, if the BBC do not continue to broadcast Crufts, perhaps less of the public will visit and make it easier for the exhibitors to get around the show!!

  18. Sandra Boot

    August 20, 2008 at 1:42 am

    Why take Crufts off air Claire, the programmed failed to show any breeds that were not affected by horrendous genetic diseases, and only interviewed breeders who were at the top of their game and did not give a toss about the breed or their dogs. There are an awful lot of us that do care, and have a breed that is in the main fit and healthy and our dogs live a long and healthy life. Wake up people, this was a programme to condemm the few.

  19. Jamie

    August 20, 2008 at 2:21 am

    I pay for the BBC like everyone else – I do not want to see animal cruelty paraded on the TV by people who don’t give a crap about animal welfare. The RSPCA is saying its Cruel – they are the leading animal welfare body in this country – LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS!!!!

    TAKE CRUFTS OFF THE TV!!!!!

    The Kennel Club could ban SOOOO much – because they actually run the dog shows and they TELL people in their book what they are looking for in a dog! THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE regardless of how they pay lip service to trying to stop the problem! I wanted to slap the lot of them!

  20. Anon

    August 20, 2008 at 2:27 am

    I am disgusted at what I witnessed during the show last night. I will NOT attend Crufts again nor will I buy a Kennel Club registered dog in the future as clearly they are NOT any different from any other unregistered or cross breed dog. Shame on the Kennel Club for misleading the public in this way and implying their dogs are healthier!! I hope the BBC comes to its senses and withdraws all publicity for the Kennel Club for the dogs sake!

  21. snowmantra

    August 20, 2008 at 10:53 am

    I think the BBC should withdraw their support of Crufts until it can be proven they are taking these hereditary defects seriously. If the KC continue to set out breed standards that are obviously causing ill health to many dogs then ultimately they should be held responsible.

    Dogs that are suffering from genetic defects should clearly NOT be winning dog shows. Until the time the KC see fit to address these issues seriously, the BBC should withdraw support.

    I work in rescue kennels and if I homed dogs in this condition then the implications would come back and visit me ten-fold….and rightly so.

    If the Kennel Club are not prepared to address these problems and are not prepared to rescind their Victorian views on breeding and breed standards then I fear they are on a rocky road to ruin.

    I find the whole thing reprehensible.

  22. Jade Gurney

    August 20, 2008 at 4:35 am

    This documentary has truelly openned my eyes to the level of distress these animals must suffer through no fault of their own. This show may be biased but it shows the truth, and any arguement the Kennel club has produced is extremely flawed. One breeder stated, and i quote, “i would rather have a dog put down before my eyes than have it fall into the hands of dog fighters”. I find it remarkable to think that someone could be so ill informed to be unaware of normal, caring pet owners or associations such as the RSPCA. The only explanation i can produce is that she has lied.

    This is the basic ideals of the animal welfare act:
    The five freedoms
    Freedom from thirst, hunger and malnutrition
    Freedom from discomfort due to environment
    Freedom from pain, injury and disease
    Freedom to express normal behaviour for the species
    Freedom from fear and distress

    At least 3 are broken by the pedigree breeding encouraged by the Kennel Club.

    Surely now is the time for legal action?

  23. James Crossley

    August 20, 2008 at 4:38 am

    The threat of dropping crufts from the BBC is such powerful leverage that it has some chance of forcing change in the kennel club policy. As such, the BBC should not be too hasty to make good on the threat.

  24. Rhisiart Gwilym

    August 20, 2008 at 5:06 am

    This very proper concern of the editor and posters, though absolutely right, doesn’t go anywhere near far enough.

    It’s become obvious to me from years of arguing these points to competitive breeders and showers within my own preferred breed that there is a wilful refusal to see the truth in many breeders, and in the Kennel Club officers.

    My breed — the Anatolian Shepherd Dog — is just now beginning to show in the current generation the unmistakable signs of inbreeding depression. I have a young dog living with me now who is clearly doomed to suffer from chronic skin troubles for this reason for the whole of his life: A grand to buy him, and more than that since on seeking some help for his trouble. A bad business, particularly for him. Yet none of my previous Anatolians ever showed any physical or psychological weaknesses. But then, they were all not more than two generations down from imported dogs directly from the original working population in Turkey. The rot had not yet set in. Now, clearly, it has.

    The working coban kopegim whom I’ve seen at their traditional work in the highlands of Turkey are renowned for their tough, hardy good health, with very few signs ever of trouble, right through their long lives. Yes, +long+ despite their size!

    But then, they’ve never been in the hands of a Western pedigree breeding community for a few generations.

    It seems that the addictive pleasure of winning at competitive dog shows is simply too strong a drug for the showing community to bring themselves to face any realities which might hamper their regular fixes.

    Yet we should remember that the competitive showers are a minority even amongst dog-lovers, and a much smaller minority yet amongst the kindly public at large, who are outraged by the sort of institutionalised cruelty, inflicted for the most feckless and petty reasons, which we saw in the documentary.

    Other countries have already begun the process of legislating to outlaw the kind of mad, ignorant, and thoroughly pernicious breeding practices which are still commonplace in the British pedigree dog breeding community,

    Since neither the breed clubs nor the Kennel Club seems able to self-regulate remotely far enough, action needs to be taken in Parliament to outlaw inbreeding and — above all — to abolish by law the principle of the closed stud books for pedigree breeds.

    Any half-way competent professional in genetics — even a properly-literate amateur — knows that the closed stud book, which compels breeding from inadequate numbers of individuals, with no new blood allowed in ever, officially, is an absolute racist, eugenicist nonsense: a leftover from thoroughly wrong-headed ideas of earlier times. I has to go. The KC and the breed clubs won’t do it. So law must.

  25. Simon

    August 20, 2008 at 5:11 am

    If the BBC intends to continue showing Crufts, maybe they should provide a commentary alongside Crufts describing the predispositions of certain breeds to hereditary health problems, how this affects the dogs, and what the treatment options and costs are. That way Crufts would be less biased, and people could make up their own mind.

    Or perhaps just show the agility, obedience, flyball, and dancing….entertaining and dogs clearly FIT for purpose.

  26. Janny

    August 20, 2008 at 5:26 am

    I saw your programme last night and was appalled by what I saw. I have German Shepherds and was hoping to breed from them however, on having the first bitch hip scored and finding that her score was way over the level set down by the kennel club I have decided not to allow her to have a litter of puppies as these could develop problems of Arthritis in later life. My bitch, who is only two years of age, is already showing signs of this complaint. On discusing this with her breeder I was informed that although the Kennel club state that the hip score should be no more than 19 total for both hips you can breed them with a hip score of up to 30. This person is an Accredited breeder. Although the Kennel Club advocate that Breeders should be Accredited, I feel that it is another money making venture on their part as they do not follow up the breeders who pay to have this title added to their name. The breeder of my bitch did say that I could show her as there is another GDS with a higher hip score than mine still being shown and winning in Kennel club dog shows. To me this seems pointless especially in view of the fact that this dog should not be bred from. This tends to make a total farce of all dog shows and Crufts in particular.

    When I had the results of my bitch’s hip score, I felt that I was to blame for the damage to her hips even though my Vet said that the complaint was hereditary. However, seeing your programme last night I now feel that the problem is due to her breeding and it is making me think very carefully as to whether I breed from the second bitch once she is old enought and dependent on her hip score at a year old.
    Janny

  27. robyn

    August 20, 2008 at 5:38 am

    I absolutely agree to stop this vile demeaning scheme, what is commonly known as crufts. We must cut its sources stop BBC 1 broadcasting crufts, stop kennel club having these ridiculous rules of what breeds should look like, so hundreds of dogs die as a result of not LOOKING right!! If everytime a human had a baby with a genetic vault such a muscular dystrophy, downs syndrome what would happen to doctors if they automatically gave parents no choice and stopped that child from living………its the same as what people are doing to dogs but worse as there perfectly HEALTHY. It needs to stop.

  28. Jennie

    August 20, 2008 at 6:51 am

    Its clear from the other posts here, that last nights programme was absolutely shocking. BBC, you have taken the necessary steps to bring these underhanded, unethical breeding practices and standards to the public domain. PLEASE DO NOT WALK AWAY NOW! For every dog you featured in your programme, there are many many more suffering in the same way. Fight for those dogs, who are silently suffering, you are their voice now.

  29. angela

    August 20, 2008 at 7:06 am

    just proves all kc are interested in is making money same as these puppy farmers neither interested in the health and welfare of these dogs

  30. kaz charles

    August 20, 2008 at 7:07 am

    Most of the public are being so shortsighted, banning Crufts is not the answer as the programme only highlighted a few breeds with genetic problems, I agree they were horrific and need urgent attention. Did the programme think about how many cavaliers would be handed into rescue after this programme was broadcast, I have heard of 6 from just ‘one’ kennel, because the owners who saw the programme are worried about their presently fit and healthy dogs that ‘might’ develop problems later in life and cost them a lot of money in vet bills. No caring owner would do such a thing. The issue should be that the breed standards should be re written so that the affected breeds are not bred to look like genetic mutants and be unable to live a full and happy life without having breathing problems and the awful disease afflicted on cavaliers. Banning coverage of Crufts is not the answer, and I sincerely hope this whole sorry saga has died down before Crufts in March and there are no do gooders standing outside with their bill boards. You should not tarr every breeder or breed with the same brush, but it seems that most of jo public is hell bent on doing so.

  31. andy chadwick

    August 20, 2008 at 7:13 am

    I too was appalled at the sight of the cavaliers in distress last night, but the one dog had a severe reaction to a collar, yet a collar was put on the dog for the purpose of the programme, which was extremely cruel and the producers have a lot to answer for.

    Why ban the coverage of Crufts? There are over 200 breeds, and only a few were covered on the programme, there are thousands of well cared for bred pedigree dogs out there, and show dogs are probably on the whole in better condition than the average pet dog as they have to be kept in tip top condition.

    Whilst this issue needed to be highlighted in order to be addressed, I feel this programme was produced by a few individuals who have a grudge against the KC.

  32. Dottie Huxtable

    August 20, 2008 at 7:21 am

    The KC ought to be ashamed and disbanded. The BBC need to pull their coverage of Crufts from now. The UK need to sign up to the European Convention…..

  33. Dottie Huxtable

    August 20, 2008 at 7:27 am

    We need a petition for real dogs – not mutants!

  34. Claire Petrie

    August 20, 2008 at 7:27 am

    Quote from Sandra Boot

    Why take Crufts off air Claire, the programmed failed to show any breeds that were not affected by horrendous genetic diseases, and only interviewed breeders who were at the top of their game and did not give a toss about the breed or their dogs. There are an awful lot of us that do care, and have a breed that is in the main fit and healthy and our dogs live a long and healthy life. Wake up people, this was a programme to condemm the few.

    End

    Why are you only asking me that? why are you not asking the others here who have said the same thing!?!?!

    Il hazard a bet, that if I was to dig through most breeds, there will be some form of health problem that is caused by this in breeding, which breeders and the kc have allowed to go on for too long

  35. ANON

    August 20, 2008 at 7:28 am

    “The UK need to sign up to the European Convention”

    Totally agree Dottie.

  36. Alison Green

    August 20, 2008 at 7:33 am

    Crufts should be taken off air because the whole show is based on looks not health and we all saw last night where that leads us. To continue to show it would be to condone it and to do so using my licence fee!

    Its outrageous and shouldnt be shown until all kc regged dogs must be health tested and proved not to add to already serious issues.

  37. Polly P

    August 20, 2008 at 8:20 am

    Crufts and dog shows in general are based on health ‘as well as’ looks, genetic diseases cannot be diagnosed at a glance. This is not all the KC’s fault, there are many unscrupulous breeders out there that do not even register their dogs, but sell them as purebreds and the public do not even know what a kc registration looks like. Most pet owners would be happy with a pedigree document, and think that their dog was registered, and that is not worth the paper it is written on.

  38. Jessica

    August 20, 2008 at 8:24 am

    People in this country get prosecuted for starving their animals, beating them or abandoning them because it’s cruel. Why doesn’t the same apply to those breeders who breed animals that are going to end up with a lifetime of misery because of the way they are bred. I was appalled by the footage of certain dogs last night and think that breeders are going to far. Crufts should be banned if it encourages these sorts of things. People want healthy animals not sick ones.

    As an owner of a 12 year old Ridgeback I was horrified to think of all those healthy Ridgeback puppies that have been destroyed because they don’t have a Ridge. Not everyone is going to want a show dog so why not just give them away as pets only. It’s appalling and these people are deluded if they think that what they are doing is right.

    My dog is also paying the price of being a pedigree dog. He has had hip dysplasia since he was a pup and now has arthritis in which eventually he will be unable to walk. He’s starting to struggle now. He has also been on medication all his life for having a low thyroid which makes him lathargic and makes his hair fall out. What makes it so sad is that he has been the most wonderful pet and doesn’t deserve to suffer like this.
    He is also larger then the average Ridgeback because it turned out that his breeder was breeding them too tall. Probably was why he ended up with hip dysplasia. Poor dog.
    Unless breeders change their ways and stop breeding these sick animals next time I chose a dog I’m going to go for a mongrel.

  39. incredulous

    August 20, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    “Interestingly the UK cavalier forum is closed for new members, but it does state on their opening page that Cavaliers, like most other breeds have genetic diseases, but most can be treated. They need to get their heads out of the sand.”

    I have been thinking of buying a Cavalier King Charles puppy but have now changed my mind. I have just looked at the UK Cavalier Club page following on from what I saw in the programme and I cannot believe that they do not mention, specifically, Syringomyelia !? I followed the link to ‘advice on choosing a puppy’ and cannot believe that this disease is not mentioned ?! Do the breeders actually care about the welfare and future of this dog? It seems to me that the breed is at a critical point in its history, a state of emergency, and I would like to have seen the issues raised on Pedigree Dogs Exposed addressed on this site. It seems to me that the majority of breeders have their heads in the sand (the Ridgeback breeder features, the CKCS breeder who continued to breed from a sick dog) and are in denial and with their defensiveness (and sometimes ludicrous arguements) I get the distinct impression that they have something to hide?! The are ‘scared’ of ‘losing breeders’ WhY? Surely those breeders who breed ethically and responsibly and who are informed about genetic defects in their breed and are seeking to breed healthy dogs would support welfare lead leadership from the top? ‘Losing breeders’ it’s a pretty lame arguement! The Kennel Club act as if their hands are tied, they seem reluctant to lead, if they are not running the ‘club’ then who is? And do we really need the Club at all? Perhaps in response to such ineffectual leadership a new body should be set up in their place. A transparent organisation, open to discussion, closely linked to animal welfare….

    And, with regard to Crufts, it would be interesting to present the show but from a different more challenging, more educational, more awareness raising angle. Indeed, i would propose that the event be covered with the central aim of raising awareness of canine health and welfare issues. The coverage in this case would include informed commentary from Knowledgeable vets and professionals in the animal welfare field (instead of Peter Purvis!), interviews with them, interviews with breeders who ARE addressing some of the issues raised in this programme, as well as ADVISE to people thinking about ‘buying’ a puppy, an expose of the cruel practise of puppy farming, and human / dog interest segments talking to specific individuals about their dogs and how they are coping with the diseases.

  40. Victoria Clare

    August 20, 2008 at 9:41 am

    We have had year after year of totally uncritical Crufts reporting, even when dogs have won that can barely walk, all the commentators say is ‘what a fine example of the breed’, ‘what a lovely dog’.

    So one-sided? No. Taken with the rest of the BBC’s dog-related output for the last 3 years, say, the overwhelming majority of it is uncritical puff for pedigree dogs. This is the only critical piece they have produced, and it was well researched and highlighted a number of very shocking problems.

    I very much hope that if Crufts is shown again on the BBC, it will be as a very different kind of show. Sack Ben Fogle and hire some good investigative journalists, a geneticist and a vet (without vested interests).

  41. Jo Phillips

    August 20, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    I was horrified and ashamed during the programme. Horrified that breed standards insist on mutating dogs into genetic abnormality and ashamed that as a nation of dog lovers we have allowed this practice to continue and worsen over many years.

    The KC has a responsisibility to protect dogs and ensure they are healthy. The KC clearly endorses the bad breeding practices so clearly shown during the programme and is therefore equally guilty along with the breeders of animal cruelty. I wonder if it would be possible to prosecute them under the animal cruelty act? Perhaps there is a European law which can be used?

    I believe the BBC should maintain its integrity by discontinuing coverage of Crufts, unless the format is changed to include or enlighten the general populace about the abrnormalities or hereditary disorders prevalent in a breed.

    Perhaps the BBC could work with the KC and embark on a campaign to promote healthy dogs with healthy breed standards and good breeding practice for breeders. It would then be approriate for Crufts to continue to be televised, using the campaign as the basis for a new style of Crufts and dog shows in general.

  42. MLineage

    August 20, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    The programme was very one sided and biased. However distressing the cases of the ckcs may have been a dog can be tested a carrier of Syringomyelia and be mated to clear bitches without producing affected puppies. If this improves the heart problems that are rife in the breed, then this would be a way forward would it not?

  43. annieh

    August 20, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    The programme was undoubtedly distressing, but why do people think inbreeding produces problems? Outcrossing will not eradicate the possibility of producing hereditary defects. If we have a problem free line, the only way to eradicate a problem is to breed back into it. Inbreeding does not produce problems that are not already present, it brings hidden problems to light where we can discover and evaluate them. If the problems are not actually present within that line, inbreeding won’t produce them at all. When we out cross we increase the possibility of introducing a problem into our breeding. It is the most dangerous form of breeding there is, as no one can safely say what problems the resultant puppies may now be carriers of? Humans are rarely line bred and we are riddled with genetic problems. There are a great deal of excellent dog breeders in this world, let us now see a programme that sings their praises.

  44. cathy

    August 20, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    All having a go at the Kennel Club and Crufts is great, did everyone miss the bit where Mark Evans was damning the Rhodesian Ridgebacks being put to sleep because they dont have Ridges, which by the way disgusts me, but Mark Evans is Chief Vet for the RSPCA (is he not?) and the RSPCA put healthy dogs down if they cant rehome them. Dogs Trust dont, but then they dont have such a big Headquarters as RSPCA.
    So whilst you are all having a pop at the Kennel Club and Crufts Dog Show, have a good old dig at the RSPCA as well please.

  45. Ryan O'Meara

    August 20, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    Cathy, you’re making a totally unequal comparison.

    1) The RSPCA did not produce those dogs that they cannot find homes for. Breeders did!

    2) The RSPCA is left to pick up the mess caused by people producing too many dogs. They have a finite amount of space. That is absolutely not in the same universe as producing a dog only to terminate its life if it turns out not to look how you wanted it to look like.

  46. Alison Green

    August 20, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Totally agree Ryan. Theres also the startling difference that those who HAVE to pts because there isnt any room left …well its heartbreaking. Unlike the woman shown last night who quite honestly didnt seem to give two hoots and was more put out that she had to get an “old fashioned” vet to do the deed!

  47. Gina

    August 20, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Overly defensive? I think the only thing the KC are doing is defending all dogs.

    By their lack of context, programmes such as Pedigree Dogs Exposed, far from helping the situation run the risk of damaging the work already being done. This work will not be carried out by TV production companies – but by the hard work of the Kennel Club and the country’s responsible breeders.

  48. KAza

    August 21, 2008 at 12:06 am

    Moving back to the points here, the RSPCA are a charity, yes they are misguided in much they do and say, they are overpaid but they cannot be compared to the KC. The KC is not just a dog club, its a business , it makes vast fortunes, yes it does place some money back into healthscreening, but, when they rely on breed clubs to set an agenda for health they get it wrong, BREEDERS dont want the world to know their dogs are sickly, genetically rubbish, afterall they show them !

    Some of these breed clubs are just a social gathering for members, they do NOTHING for their breeds. I have done more in 5 years with my website than all the bichon breed clubs have done in 30 years, why , because I CARE !
    The dogworld is still full of toffy nosed old bags who think they know everything , they are patronising, in the main uneducated, ignorant and gossipmongerers. Trouble is they make judges up and hey presto herein lies the problem, its a huge back scratching exercise.
    I have seen dogs in the ring wth patella luxation, poor coats, poor gaits etc and they WIN….They then produce pups, its a huge vicious uncaring circle.

    The Accredited scheme is simply an extension of the show fraternity it is the baby of Diana Brooks Ward, she doesnt like criticism of her silly scheme. There are no places or accolades for health testing just breeding litters andstud book numbers. We suggested this was fundamentally flawed. Did they do anything to correct this gaping hole NO. The KC is full of ladies that lunch when it really should be quite the opposite, these ladies have far too much to say within the K9 world and its about time it was brought to a halt. Dogs need to be entrusted to those that dare not those that pretend to care.
    Breed clubs are the first I would attack, they are full of stupid old women.

  49. Janny

    August 21, 2008 at 2:56 am

    Kaza
    I totally agree with you. The KC is a money making business as are many of the Breeders.
    Janny

  50. marta ainley

    August 21, 2008 at 3:19 am

    hi. My personal feeling is that maybe in the past people bred certain traits into dogs for certain jobs. thats ok i suppose. However, the KC and many breeders breed for looks and these looks are decided by the KC. the programme left me with the belief that many of the breeders are only concerned with making a living. KC clearly has no interest in dog welfare. Crufts and dog shows are a ‘shop window’ and encourage people to buy pedigree dogs. Crufts will hopefully be banned on BBC and breeders who lack integrity might hopefully have to stop pimping dogs and get a worthwhile job. the rescue orgs are overflowing with all types of dogs so it is wrong to encourage poeple to buy puppies from breeders.

  51. Dave

    August 21, 2008 at 3:24 am

    I too was appalled at the blindness of the KK and the brazn lies of one of the women breeders. How on earth can people wanting a pet ever trus KK registered breeder from now on. We have two GSD (well the wife has) and the hope was to breed from the first bitch. Her hip score was sky high so my wife decided not to breed from this very attractive dog who is already at 2 years of age, showing signs of arthritis. The second GSD, still a pup, will be hip scored when old enough and another decision made as to her being fit and suitable for breeding. So my wife is being honest in her attempts to breed her dogs. I do realise that not all KK registered breeders are not all dishonest but again, how can the KK as a whole, be trusted? Unless of course, the KK start to police it’s registered breeder members in a more stringent manner in the future. Only then will they be able to repair the fait lost in them of late.

  52. bruce

    August 21, 2008 at 3:55 am

    The blame for the present disgusting situation of chronically ill and deformed dogs and the ever narrowing genepools has to be laid at the door of the SHOW breeders who, for years, have slavishly bred according their misguided interpretation of the breed standards. In their desperation to win rosettes and trophies they have created many exaggerated dogs and JUDGES HAVE REWARDED these exaggerations thus perpetuating the crime. And in my opinion it is a crime. eg “well angulated” gsds are now over angulated cripples, bulldogs “massive” skulls are ultra massive deformities, “cobby” pugs now have stomach tissue intruding into chest cavities, weather resistant double coats of rough collies are now an impediment to the dog in the all weather.Low to the ground bassets are now unathletic bags of loose flesh and slobber who battle to shuffle around the ring yet the chairman of the basset club insists they have improved this breed of hunting hound in the last 60 years!Pa-leeZ! The KC is run by these same people – they will never change – the programme highlighted their ignorance of the original function of their breeds and blindness to the problem – Irvine’s angry response of saying that he didnt need scientists telling him about dogs is typical of the arrogance. The KC should be disbanded, in-breeding and line breeding banned and the breeding of pedigree dogs should be under the guidance and supervision of knowledgeble people – geneticists, vets, dog welfare specialists and dog historians. No dog should be bred from that has not had every health test possible and a working qualification.Registries should be thrown open to broaden the gene pool eg welsh or patterdale terriers could be used to bring new blood into lakelands and inter variety breeding between the varieties of belgian shepherds should be encouraged not banned as it is now.

  53. Anon

    August 21, 2008 at 4:27 am

    I watched with total horror as I witness the genetic illnesses of the poor Cavalier King Charles Spaniels (and others) in Tuesdays BBC programme.

    I have 2 King Charles Spaniels, but I calmed myself slightly believing my breeder was a responsible and respected. Only to find my breeder was the lady alleged to have bred the CKCS with the genetic issue.

    I am now totally horrified that my 2 dogs will develop this problem, as they could both have been sired by the dog in the programme, or one of her others dogs with the same complaint. When I purchased my dogs she lied about being a dog lover and a responsible breeder.

    Both my dogs will be having very expensive MRI scans to check for this genetic issue. However, both are young and this may not be apparent on the scan. Therefore, I may request all known medical information on the Dam and Sire of the litters. If she refuses, I will speaking my solicitor about attaining this information. She will be having a rough time I suspect from me and others. If you have purchased a dog from her, I suggest you do the same.

    People who show and breed dogs in this unethical and imoral manner are NOT dogs lovers. They are selfishly interested in making money and receiving flawed adulation. Whatsmore, they are creating dogs purely against flawed an examplar and will shortly totally destroy dogs forever. I suspect this prospect does not concern them, but it does seriously concern me and family as we invest our emotional energy into these dogs and hence they are part of our family.

  54. Tanz

    August 21, 2008 at 7:02 am

    I am in full support of the BBC doing the right thing and pulling their coverage of crufts, it might finally make the KC think a little bit about what they are doing to the dog breeds.

    You can harp on about how it was biased and all that, but at the end of the day, that programme was not designed to show how lovely, and rosey the KC is, it was designed to show the truth behind the veil. Yes there are some very good breeders out there, but there are clearly not enough, as can be seen by the state of the dog breeds!

    By closing the stud book and producing such farcical breed standards they have turned what were once proud, strong working dogs into pathetic mutants who can barely walk!

  55. Mark

    August 21, 2008 at 8:13 am

    The dog show world is playing havoc with breed gene pools and I suspect some pools are now fatally flawed. In the past some terrier breeders would deliberately introduce new blood from other close types from time to time, when they felt that their own pool was becoming ‘stagnant’. Of course no KC breed club is allowed to do this now and with some breeds it would be impossible anyway.

    I think the Kennel Club is cowardly by not policing dog shows more rigorously. Most show judges are breeders of the breed they’re judging! Talk about a conflict of interest. They are not allowed to enter their own dogs of course, but many of the dogs they judge may have been bred by them!

    If a member of the Kennel Club armed themselves with the bulldog breed standard and attended a bulldog show ring they would find that on two counts alone, most dogs should be disqualified.

    1. Dogs showing respiratory distress highly undesirable.
    2. Size Dogs 25kgs; Bitches 23kg

    Weight is especially important with brachycephalic breeds because their breathing is already compromised, and being overweight just makes matters worse. I fear for bulldogs and it would be a shame to lose them. They are unique, wonderful characters and superb companions.

    If the Kennel Club can’t act on something so obvious as this with bulldogs, what hope the rest of these poor breeds?

  56. Alison Green

    August 21, 2008 at 10:16 am

    ANON,

    I honestly hope your dogs MRI is clear. What an awful shock it must have been for you. Please let us know how you get on. Keeping everything crossed for a good result.

  57. joyce

    August 21, 2008 at 10:56 am

    Mark, you need to get your facts right. No-one would enter a dog show under a judge that has bred their dogs, it just isnt done.

  58. eileen

    August 21, 2008 at 10:59 am

    I wonder how many people who have bought dogs from the cavalier breeder have been in contact with her to reclaim vet fees for MRI scans, and possible legal cases? I would think she is finished in the dog world, and gone underground.

  59. joshua

    August 21, 2008 at 11:01 am

    ‘They are not allowed to enter their own dogs of course, but many of the dogs they judge may have been bred by them’

    Rubbish!!

  60. Nichola

    August 21, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Many clearly believe that banning Crufts is not the answer, in response to this, these people must see its the morals behind the ‘Crufts’ type shows that many dog lovers find hard to stomach. If we watched a dog show which we believed was more tightly regulated, in which sick dogs are taking part and also some how winning, then perhaps many of us would be happy to sit down and enjoy such a show.

    Although I do think the BBC show was very biased, and I am sure there are many respectable breeders out there who do take the illness of their dogs seriously, what this show highlighted is that we have a long, long, long way to go. Many breeders were narrow minded, short sighted and down right ignorant. If Crufts introduced medical testing, and set down their own standards in which inter breeding was not allowed, then perhaps we would be behind such establishments in the future.

    What was also evident, is that the Kennel Club is obviously running scared, with its breeders much stronger than they are. I believe that the Kennel Club is better than nothing, as many breeders will begin to set their own standards, if such an establishment disappears. But what the Kennel Club need to do is make a direct stand, show some guts and say ‘ this is how is it’ no more inter breeding, medically test breeding dogs and stop culling perfectly healthy dogs. Please KC for the sake of some of the most beautiful breeds make a stand. (not that I ever believe they will if the BBC programme is to be believed)

  61. cathy

    August 21, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    RYAN

    RSPCA put down healthy cross breeds as well as healthy pedigree dogs they cannot home, perhaps if someone did a study on them they may find that they put down more healthy cross breeds than healthy pedigree dogs. That is the point I am making. Dont blame Dog Breeders for all unwanted dogs, most unwanted dogs are cross breeds that have not been intentially mated. I am extremely careful where my dogs are homed, I do not breed very often at all, not even once a year, and I am a hobby breeder who cares for all my dogs welfare including pups that I have bred in the past, for the whole of their lifetime. Do NOT tar all breeders with the same brush, that is the point.

  62. KAza

    August 21, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Pedigree Dog Business Exposed At Last !

    For far too many years some KC (accredited) breeders have dragged dogs down to human level. They have exhibited dogs that have been unfit for purpose when we consider why the KC was established in its original form. They have then perpetuated canine disease by inbreeding (line breeding) and producing progeny from lines that are far too close. It’s only now that we are hearing from breeders throughout the World who are stating clearly that imports from the UK since 1976 have brought with them severe genetic problems , as such UK dogs have an appalling reputation World-Wide.

    We started a global website (http://www.eurobichons.com) a couple of years ago to inform the public that many breeders from UK breed clubs were producing dogs with health problems, as such club committee members were seen to be telephoning other breed clubs to ensure that we were not members.Now ask yourself, what does that achieve for dogs?… In short it does them a disservice, it perpetuates this closed shop scenario that created genetic problems in the first place. Breed clubs in the UK and its members ARE CREATING animal suffering , they continue to use lines with problems, popular sires , then they export the progeny to places like Australia, Canada, Germany, Holland…. ALL these places are now with us and giving the names of the lines that are producing problems such as heart murmurs, patella luxation, elbow luxation, cataracts, PRD, and many many more…Sadly all those we know about are the founders of UK breed clubs, they are the ones dictating to YOU about ethics when in reality they have NONE. Some have even been seen cheating at dog shows in order to win, why ? , Why, because its for THEM and not the DOG !

    These breeders make money but would like you all to believe they do it at a loss , I find that pathetic, naïve and patronising, they do it to make money and give them social standing within the small insular world to which they belong. They parade about in KC Jackets and judge their friends dogs to receive the treatment in return, they judge by favour and NOT by quality. Isnt it really about time that the KC took a stand and brought judges into the real world. Isnt it about time they listened to those outside of the breed clubs and paid attention to who and what is doing for dogs like all should ?

    I read on one site that a KC judge thought the KC was simply a club, not a business, now how is that for naivity, oh by the way she is a judge.

    Pedigree dogs in the UK suffer at the hands of those they entrust to care, they are bred by those who say they breed for betterment of the breed, ok if that is true, why do many diseases exist in abundance, why when an emerging health problem exists do you allow breeding without mandatory testing?

    People go on about puppy farming and rightly so, but come on, far worse issues in the canine world exist like poor gene pool management by those who should know better and if they don’t they should NOT be breeding. Practices that permit coated dogs to be shut away and not exhibit doggy behaviour in case it breaks their coats, that under the animal welfare act would be an offence, so why sit on your backside and allow this to continue ?

    EVERY dog owner in the UK should sit up and listen , they should read about dogs and protest at the way showing and breeding have become such buxom buddies, at why they have a huge vets bill for their pedigree dog because their breeder refused to test. Frankly many breed clubs in the UK should be BANNED from breeding, they understand nothing about dogs, welfare, gene pool management and get very confused as to why dogs are exhibited.

    I hope the programme on the BBC makes us all understand that dogs here SUFFER because of the way in which they are managed by those entrusted to care.

  63. Alison Green

    August 21, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    CATHY,

    Not being funny but if anyone takes in more cross breeds than pedigrees then it stands to reason that when they have to pts becuase of lack of homes that the majority will be crossbreeds!!! Its hardly rocket science!

    This topic isnt about the RSPCA its about the KC. The RSPCA are often without a choice. The KC arent. They simply wont.

  64. Mark

    August 21, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    I’m sorry about some ambiguity I’ve caused here, but once a breeder/judge has sold a dog, I understand that the new owner is perfectly entitled and able to enter the dog in any dog show they want to.

    But in my opinion, if the presiding judge happens to be the breeder of that dog, there must be a conflict of interest.

  65. Lindsey Barry

    August 21, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    I for one will not be watching Crufts on TV nor will I be attending the show as I have done in the past. There is such a strong feeling amongst the majority of animal lovers who saw the recent Kennel Club Exposed programme that if everyone voted with their feet and boycotted anything to do with the kennel club they would have to look to the way they regulate dog breeders. The K C have far reaching powers in the dog world they need to use them now, stop using excuses for letting the breeders dictate the rules. Dogs are suffering in a most horrendous way and all in the name of fashion, a dog should be judged fist and formost on its health and absence of any genetic abnormality. This would at the moment preclude most dogs from entering Crufts But the time has come for the Kennel Club to stand up and be counted, it has allowed the British public to remain in blissful ignorance for too long.

  66. Daniel Butler (Anon)

    August 21, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    MESSAGE FOR ALISON GREEN.

    Thank you for messages of support. I will keep you informed of the results. We are speaking with an experienced CKCS vet soon.

    thanks

    Daniel

  67. Janny

    August 21, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Having seen your programme I feel that it only scratched the surface of the problem, as you only mentioned a few breeds with abnormalities. People seeing this who were thinking of buying a pedigree dog will look at other breeds that were not mentioned. These I would imagine are no more fit than those mentioned on your programme. Llassa Apso’s for example suffer from horrific skin complaints which are very costly to treat. I think another programme from you on the same subject to include more of the breeds should be shown in order to make people aware of what is happening to our lovely pedigree breeds before it is to late. Unfortunately peoples nature being what it is will be horrified at the time of your programme being shown then will promptly forget about it a week later. This needs to be an ongoing campaign in order to force the Kennel Club and the Breeders to change their policies in respect of the breed standards of all pedigree dogs.

  68. jeang

    August 21, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    quote…..The programme was very one sided and biased. However distressing the cases of the ckcs may have been a dog can be tested a carrier of Syringomyelia and be mated to clear bitches without producing affected puppies. If this improves the heart problems that are rife in the breed, then this would be a way forward would it not? END.

    Is this a scientific fact, or simply breeders ‘opinions’? Why does a dog that is a carrier have to be used, surely clear to clear may in time breed out this awful condition? Is it impossible to find enough of this breed that are not sickly or linebred to improve their health, or are they so inbred and riddeled with health problems it is now impossible! Why is it the breed club advise MRI, yet many breeders will not have it done?

    One sided and biased….true, it was on the side of the dogs bred rather than the money making glory hunters and the Kc. About time too. if that makes it one sided and biased…LOL…its bought the truth out.

  69. smash

    August 22, 2008 at 9:02 am

    1. As a breeder and exhibitor of dogs I was very upset to see how one-sided the programme was. what i saw was a minority of disgraceful breeders who do not represent the dog showing society in any way. Im my opinion they should be thrown out of the kennel club and not allowed to breed again. I understand the criticism shown in the programme but it was completely exaggerated to the extent where I found myself shouting at the television because the it was pure sensationalism in most parts. To cast the responsible majority of breeders into the same category as those monsters was outrageous. Even more offensive was to compare us to HITLER which was in bad taste and very disrespectful to those who suffered at the hands of him (ie most of my late family). I have never made money out of breeding, sometimes I barely break even FACT. After vet bills, vaccinations, food and equipment My number one priority is that my puppies go to a loving home and live a long healthy life. I know where all my puppies live and regularly keep in contact with the owners and In all my 10 years of breeding I have never had a dog die of a genetic disease.
    What the show failed to tell the public was that most of the examples of sick dogs shown in the programme were from PUPPY FARMS!!! which have nothing to do with the Kennel Club. They are shunned by the whole of the dog showing society and are what is really wrong with dog breeding. Maybe the

  70. smash

    August 22, 2008 at 9:03 am

    lady should have done some good and used this media attention to highlight this problem instead of making sweeping and far from accurate assumptions about people like myself.
    Puppy farmers breed litter after litter of puppies not caring what happens to them as long as they can get some money. It is unfortunate that this programme has left viewers with a mistaken impression that all pedigree dogs are riddled by disease when in fact its the puppy farmers that are causing this problem.

  71. jaynes

    August 23, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    The programme highlighted some disturbing facts, but as has already been said it has left the general public, which is obvious from a lot of these posts, with the impression that all dog breeders have no interest in the health and welfare of their dogs. It is a shame, as Crufts and dog shows are not full of dogs bred just about their looks without a care for their welfare. The producers of the programme appear to be on a mission to ban all dog shows and damm the kennel club.

    Something needs to be done about the awful SM disease carried by Cavaliers, and some of the bull breeds etc that cannot have a good quality of life due to the way they are bred, and the KC should re write the standard to reflect this, but it is not going to happen overnight, and the public should realise that.

    To ban Crufts on the BBC would be a terrible shame, and the BBC should use this time to publicise the good things about dog showing.

  72. jocks

    August 23, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    There were a lot of great things highlighted in this programme, but unfortunately the re percussions have started already. Hundreds of CKCS have been put in rescue or returned to their breeders as owners are worried about future health problems, and what this may cost them. Being a popular breed, they have been bred for demand, and now there are hundreds of puppies still for sale that no-one wants to buy, what happens to these puppies now, will they be pts or end up in rescue? It is going to take years and years to change the standard of any dog, and IMO the only way people with this breed can continue to carry on, would be to ban them from being shown until things are put right.

    The producers of the programme were on a one man mission to put down the whole of the dog world, pedigree dogs and the kennel club.

  73. Sally

    August 23, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    Quote ‘But in my opinion, if the presiding judge happens to be the breeder of that dog, there must be a conflict of interest’ END

    This comment shows the lack of knowledge from the general public who have no idea how dog shows and breeding work. The programme highlighted a problem, but failed to educate the uninitiated which made for very poor viewing.

    Apart from companion shows which are usually in aid of charity, all open, general championship shows etc (including Crufts) dogs are entered and judged against others of the same breed, and as such, in the majority of cases, the judge is a breed specialist, so there is ‘no favouritism’ on his particular breed.

  74. JudithH

    August 23, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    Emma Milne is known to be anti pedigree dogs, so anything she says is viewed as unfounded. The RSPCA are a bunch of idiots who have millions in the Bank and put healthy dogs to sleep, and I dont know how they had the nerve to publicly humiliate the dog breeding world. I feel it is morally wrong to put any dog to sleep, including the poor RR puppies born without a Ridge but this is done by a few old time breeders and not the whole breed as a whole, so dont criticise them all.

  75. Alison Green

    August 24, 2008 at 2:16 am

    Jocks,

    Surely no self respecting breeder would breed for demand? There are some good breeders out there and to my knowledge they breed to better that breed. Any breeder breeding simply for demand does not equal a good breeder imho and therefore if hundreds are being returned or left unsold surely that shows the programme was correct? If the programme stopped someone buying from a bad breeder than it has done what many have tried to do for years and should be applauded.

  76. Carol Muckley

    August 24, 2008 at 6:54 am

    I am sure there are a lot of good dog breeders out there, but don’t they need to put pressure on the Kennel Club to get the breed standards changed so that all dog breeders are encouraged to breed healthy dogs. Surely if all the good knowledgable people got together they could make a start to eradicate the diseases and faults in the breeds and have nicer looking and healthier dogs. I certainly will not be watching crufts anymore until things start to improve for the poor dogs. Lets give Mans best friend the happiness and healthy life they deserve.

  77. Roger R

    August 24, 2008 at 10:32 am

    Produced by a bunch of people with a vendetta against the KC. It has highlighted a genetic disease that has rocked the dog world, and some bad practices by ‘some’ breeders.

  78. bestuvall

    August 24, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    Are we having a Laff?? This program was so one sided it was joke..first it compared dog breeding to Hilter.. and eugenics.. GUESS WHAT.. Hilter was a strong believer in Animal RIGHTS.. so much so that dogs were more important than JEWS, misfits or handicapped PEOPLE..and speaking of “misfits”.. the RSPCA has NO problem dragging hundreds of dogs to their deaths every year.. healthy dogs.. WHY????? JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY LOOK.. now if that isn’t the epitomy of eugenics and prejudice.. I don’t know what is…You have BANNED non breeds of dogs based on thier LOOKS alone and the RSPCA stands in favor of the en masse killingas do the people of Britain
    Want to compare dogs to people?? Show an epileptic having a seizure.. a child dying of cancer.. a person being diagnosed with heart disease. then blame their parents.. What were they thinking??.Why weren’t they health tested before they had children.. after all they are all “outcrosses” why isn’t every human perfectly healthy???. GUESS WHAT?? WE ALL DIE.. every single one of us..Dogs live healthier and longer lives than ever before..inbreeding is just a TOOL.. used in a positive way by many breeders to ELIMINATE health problems..What is it about PURE BRED that you people don’t understand??? Sounds like you would all prefer to just get a mutt.. if so GET ONE.. don’t watch Crufts..and surely don’t buy a dog from a breeder.. God knows.. it might die.. sometime…perhaps before you do.. then.. BAD BREEDER..get a grip.. many more dogs are healthier and happier than ever before. eat better .. get more vet care..and live longer. What would satisfy you.. NO DOGS AT ALL?????

  79. bestuvall

    August 24, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    This program and its author should be responsible for every Pug, King Charles ,German Shepard and Boxer that is turned in or returned for “possible” health problems.. disgraceful.. and most of you are buying into it.. sad or stupid??..take your choice.. or both…..
    BBC.. grow a backbone.. and support Crufts.. and the KC..
    BAN .. the latest fad in Britain

  80. JaneLane

    August 24, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    Good breeders only have a litter when they want to keep something themself to show, if the litter is good and 50% of them are good enough to show they will usually go to show homes, but it is very rare for the whole of a litter to be of such excellent quality that they can be shown, and the remaining puppies will go to pet homes. If the demand isnt there, breeders wouldnt think twice about having puppies that they cant sell. What this programme has highlighted in the Cavalier breed will no doubt change public opinion, but in the interim, what happens to all the puppies that are for sale? It would take at least 6 generations to change the standard of a dog, so it isnt something the KC can change overnight, and banning Crufts is not the answer. Comments need to reflect a way forward as opposed to trying to destroy peoples lives and hobbies.

  81. Irisheyes

    August 24, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    Banning Crufts would be scandalous, and what the producers have done could destroy next years Crufts with the fear of petitions and there are an awful lot of good breeders out there who do not breed from dogs with genetic defects. Perhaps the BBC should direct a programme on puppy mills, as that affects even more breeds than the few that were shown in this programme.

  82. Pippy222

    August 24, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    This was a programme that was aimed entirely at Joe Public and I’m pretty certain that the message which some potential puppy buyers will have received, is that you have to avoid puppies that are KC registered as the people who breed these pups are cruel and uncaring, as typified by the RR breeder. It’s unlikely that the people who will have been put off buying a KC registered puppy will be running down to the nearest rescue centre to adopt an adult dog. More likely that they will simply buy an unregistered pup which could potentially have far greater health problems and been bred in horrendous circumstances.

  83. Charles

    August 25, 2008 at 12:47 am

    For over 5 years now we have run a website exposing poor breeding practices in the UK. What still astounds me ater this programme was aired is how pathetic some exhibitors are reacting, its like they didnt actually understand what was being said within that programme. Simply because only a few breeds were mentioned doesnot give them carte blanche to have a not in my back yard approach to either showing or breeding.Every breed in the UK has some form of problem, just because the breed club doesnt admit it doesnt mean it not in existence.
    Gene pool managemnet is all about controlling breed type , this is set by breed clubs , a farce, many dogs come to the UK with excellent type, but owners here need ther stamp placed firmly upon that dog, as such they always set to alter the original type, why ?
    EU owners look at our dogs and laugh, many are so far removed from its origin its hardly recogniseable , new breeds , rare breeds in the UK are already being attacked by EU judges , why, because once again the dotty old bags have their grubby hands on them.STOP ALTERING TYPES, STOP CLOSE LINE BREEDING , STOP JUDGES PATTING THE BACKS OF DODGY BREEDERS THAT SHOW and lets respect dogs once again…
    If we are a nation of dog lovers then lets do just that, LOVE them for bing what they are. Dont breed because its a good source of untaxed income for most and support those that do test, support those outside of breed clubs who knwo every dog they have produced and KEEP OWNERS INFORMED of any health problem.

  84. Ryan O'Meara

    August 25, 2008 at 10:22 am

    bestuvall, you say this:

    “the RSPCA has NO problem dragging hundreds of dogs to their deaths every year.. healthy dogs.. WHY????? JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY LOOK.. now if that isn’t the epitomy of eugenics and prejudice.. I don’t know what is…You have BANNED non breeds of dogs based on thier LOOKS alone and the RSPCA stands in favor of the en masse killingas do the people of Britain”

    I can’t, for the life of me, see what it is you are actually saying. You say the RSPCA ‘drag hundreds of dogs to their deaths’ because of the way they look. Care to expand on that?

  85. bestuvall

    August 25, 2008 at 11:55 am

    The RSPCA does not actively lobby for the removal of the “dangerous dogs” act… one that BANS “certain” types of dogs that are then seized and killed if found .. If the RSPCA took a HUGE stand on NOT enforcing this law.. and the people of Britain stood up and said NO to the banning and killing of dogs based on their looks alone.. Britain would be a better place…perhaps prejudice against certain people and certain dogs would make a beter documentary than one that attepmts to show that “most pedigreed dogs” are unhealthy and die after short painful lives..which is patentedly untrue..
    “Good” breeders certainly breed dogs for many other reasons than to show. Hunting dogs, working dogs,police dogs and guide/service dogs are a few reasons to breed dogs other than showing. Some even breed dogs so that people can have pets. What a concept..

  86. Alison Green

    August 25, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Bestuvall you said : The RSPCA does not actively lobby for the removal of the “dangerous dogs” act

    The RSPCA stood up a long time ago and said they would ONLY act on type cases if there was a welfare issue involved.

    The Kc have stood up WHEN?!

    Apart from stating political climate as a reason to KEEP the DDA what exactly have they done?

    Apart from train up experts to put a death sentence on dogs what exactly have they done?

    The KC have been as uninterested in the DDA as they have been in bad breeding practices.

    Talk alot, but do nothing.

  87. chandrith

    August 26, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Ryan, I believe what someone is saying is that if homes are not found for dogs, ‘because of the way they look’ and the RSPCA has no room for them, they have to be pts, and most of these dogs are cross breeds as opposed to pedigree.

  88. jonnybegood

    August 26, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/2004/23/5/3

    Kennel Club Answers Back – Live webchat on 27th August at 12 noon
    26-Aug-08

    Join Caroline Kisko and Dr Jeff Sampson from the Kennel Club as they answer your questions and dispel concerns over pedigree dog breeding

    Chat date: 27th August

    Chat time: 12.00pm

  89. Greyhound1405

    August 27, 2008 at 1:49 am

    1: RSPCA, sue breeders who knowingly breed dogs without health chaecks and produce mutants who can’t breathe, walk properly, have skin problems and allergies, numerous illnesses etc. That in my book is animal cruelty. I would be rightly sued by RSPCA if I beat my dog until he looked like he does now with his skin allergy. 10 million a week vets fees. So vets and drug companies aren’t going to complain!
    2: In Breeding and line breeding is uegenics, carrying on where Adolf Hitler left off. We know it is wrong with humans, so what makes it different for animals. Shame on you KC for not condemning this practice. Perhaps your snooty members (not the normal pet owner members) think it make them better? It doesn’t, it shows you up as ugly hearted despots!
    3:Breeders look out. expect numerous court cases for selling dogs with known diseases, like the bitch on the show who knowingly lied. Has the KC got rid of her? Of course not, they need her money.
    4: Has the KC got rid of the dreadful woman who puts down healthy ridgebacks? Of course not… And if they did she would go onderground and sell to her snooty friends.

  90. charlie theore

    August 28, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Before people criticise, this programme was obviously produced by a group of people with a vendetta against the KC. If the public does not realise by now they cannot believe everything they read in the newspaper/TV, they need to wake up.

    Perhaps this will help

    http://www.dogworld.co.uk/News/35-not-in-the-programme

  91. Pixie

    September 1, 2008 at 9:01 am

    Ha Ryan you got told!

  92. Dave the Dog

    September 1, 2008 at 11:06 am

    What the documentary makers decided not to include in their programme

    I think that this article just re-enforces the programmes points!

  93. Sazza

    September 2, 2008 at 9:21 am

    You guys make me laugh!

    Greyhound1405: Im a 27 year old who breeds dogs and lives in a semi-detached house, does that make me snooty?

    haha god you lot know nothing!

  94. Chris Hyde

    September 2, 2008 at 9:22 am

    SHOWS HOW GULABLE THE PUBLIC OF TODAY ARE!

  95. Genny

    September 5, 2008 at 8:08 am

    It’s about time that breeders of the working breeds realised that those dogs were originally bred for a specific purpose and therefore of course the best dog should be the one that performs its work best. I remember a long time ago a breeder of show greyhounds saying that “of course, my dogs would never win a race”! Surely that is the whole point of a running dog – that it can run fast and get to its prey first. What on earth is the point of one that looks pretty but can’t run very fast?!!! Now I realise that some breeds can’t perform the work they were bred for, eg the bulldog, but that is no excuse for producing the parody of the dog that we have now, with all its attendant problems. To quite deliberately breed an animal with those problems is criminal. Those breeders that took the bulldog back to how it looked back in the C19th are vilified by the KC and its accredited breeders. And the man with his Bassett Hound should be ashamed of himself.

    The really interesting thing, though, is to read the history of a lot of these “pedigree” dogs. They were all cross-breeds once! And many of them not so long ago too. And now look at the modern fashion for the so called designer dogs, such as “labradoodles” and the price being asked for some of them. My local paper had an advert for puppies with a Norfolk Terrier mother and Cairn father and they were asking £200 each!!!! What is the point? But that’s another issue altogether.

  96. Elaine Everest

    September 15, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    AS someone with a foot in both camps – I am owner/breeder/judge of pedigree dogs as well as working in the media I can assure you that the documentary was edited to be sensationalist. This point has been widely mdiscussed and agreed. It did not show the KC’s health svhemes or mnention that ove 95% of the 207 breed registered in the UK are not in any way ill or deformed. The quotes made by the RSPCA’s representitve were later dismissed by them as his own views and not those of the RSPCA. Also the dogs that were shown to be fitting etc were not represntitive of their breeds. In fact the producer of the tv programme could not even name the breeders of these dogs so most likely they came from puppy farms or back yard breeders.
    Be assured that all our breed clubs work hard to educate the public in dog health and care. It is our clubs that fund the reaerch into canine health and support good animal husbandry. Unfortunately the RSPCA are not the best charity but they have the biggest pr force and are backe by the governement to whom they make huge donations. Take a look at smaller charities that work for our pets such as the Cinnamon Trust and think of giving your hard earned donations to them instead.
    Please do not condemn dog breeder of dog shows because on one badly made film, the majority of show dogs are also pets and live most of their lives in the compfrt of their families homes. Please come to the dog show, speak to us – we are not monsters.

  97. A G Strang

    September 15, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    As the owner of a ‘wiggly walk’ Golden Retriever (who’s going to need a new hip in 7 years) along with a stomping walk Goldie who’s never going to suffer hip problems, I’m quite irritated over the whole fiasco.
    The points why Elaine Everest are well made but I remain unhappy that breeders have prostituted themselves for KC standards and thus damaged our family pets until the point where it became unfashionable to do so.

    Out of interest, how many breeders writing in this forum have NOT sold a pup on the basis it’s ancestor was once a KC champ?

  98. Allison Black

    September 18, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    WELL DONE to the BBC! at long last the Kennel Club has been found out for what they stand for. I lost complete interest and faith when – as a result of diminishing membership they started allowing a breeder to register TWO litters per year from the same bitch! Money is the root of the problem! Inbreeding from the same stock ? i call that INCEST ! the breeders that appeared on the programme should hang their heads in absolute shame. How can this be in an animals best interest to be mated all the time? how will this “improve” the breed standard? the faults and health conditions of these poor dogs are as direct result of whims and fashionable trends. they are not bred for temperement. the ridgeback breeder is an out and out murderer! those poor pups could very easily have been GIVEN to families as FAMILY PETS! and been given the opportunity to live. BUT she wouldnt have gotten any money for them! I always believed that doggy people were far above those who did not have a dog, i am disgusted at what these !!!!! have been allowed to get away with. Hitler tried it and failed. the Kennel club has had the monopoly on so called standards for far tooo long. time for change for the future, but what about all those poor animals that are suffering now? what sort of world do we live in that allows this to happen to poor defenceless creatures. I am not a great fan of the RSPCA/SPCA as they do put healthy animals down due to pathetic reasons as lack of space etc, however, they, Mark Evans has gone up in my estimations. the BBC should stop filming Crufts!

  99. SMS

    September 18, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    I have never sold a puppy based on its having a champion parentage. I will say it is KC registered, but that is all and most people expect a pedigree breed to be KC registered.
    I have sold a puppy on the fact that the puppies parents are Eye and heart tested, hip and elbow scored.
    I have sold a puppy on the fact that the pups have been eye tested before being placed in new homes.
    I have sold puppies on the fact that they are DNA profiled and are from several generations of my dogs who are DNA profiled. All of my dogs and puppies have DNA sent to the Animal Health Trust DNA Archive for future research into health problems in dogs and my breed in particular.
    How many breeders of the designer crossbreeds can say this. Who is recording this information for crossbreeds and mongrels.
    What are people expecting to happen. Do they want certain breeds banned; do they want all pedigree breeds banned. Are they wanting dog shows banned. If they ban shows what do they think will happen to the breeds they state they love.
    What do they think will happen if the BBC doesnt show Crufts. do you think it will not go ahead. I was asked to go on the Crufts program and i put forward some questions on the sunday teatime show which was supposed to be on health and tbh the BBC didnt want to know.
    The questions, which were on health schemes and how to understand them, was not considered TV worthy for the general public.

  100. Rachel

    September 22, 2008 at 9:09 am

    I completely agree SMS!!!

    For those of you who are not a breeder or exhibitor of pedigree dogs, ask yourself this. How many stories in the papers and on tv have been found to be completely untrue? The answer is quite a lot. It made you buy the paper though didn’t it? Well unfortunately these producers were running out of ideas to get high ratings so unfortunately the world of dog showing fell victim to their vicious untruths. They have released a wrath of fury, creating public outrage so they can get a few quid out of completely innocent peoples’ expense.

    It’s such a shame YET AGAIN the public bought into this ridiculous and sensationlist story.

  101. Dave the Dog

    September 22, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Rachel says:
    “It’s such a shame YET AGAIN the public bought into this ridiculous and sensationlist story.”

    If it wasn’t so serious I would laugh. Ridiculous? Sensationalist? Oh please! I now work in Animal Control and Welfare, not the RSPCA, but for the last 35 years I have trained and handled dogs professionally in life threatening situations. I have watched the German Shepherd and the Labrador in the UK become less and less able to perform meaningful work.

    In my full time work I see dogs weekly who need veterinary intervention for hereditory conditions.

    I am not anti breeders or dog shows, friends of mine do both, but I would do want to see the KC grasp the nettle and clamp down on exaggerated points in breed standards and allow less litters per bitch.

    I won’t bore anyone with the heartache I am going through with my present GSD but the problem is hereditory and fatal. Like all my dogs he is from kemnnels where he was handed in as unwanted at under 6 months old.

  102. Dave the Dog

    September 22, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Apologies for the typo’s. I got a little bit upset and angry.

  103. Gnasher

    September 23, 2008 at 12:01 am

    Dave the Dog

    Nice post, know what you mean about the KC needing to take a firm leadership role here.

    If they will not, what is the point of them, are they then just another London club for breed judges to come and sit in their luxury premises when they are up in London?

  104. Chris Hyde

    September 23, 2008 at 12:25 am

    Im afraid it is ridiculous and sensationalist Dave. I am a very successful breeder and championship show judge. If a dog cannot walk in a straight line or it is slightly lame i will not give it a placing at all. To suggest we let blatently ill dogs win is just completely untrue. Yes that cavalier won BOB but that was an unnoticeable illness it had which she failed to tell people about. Shame on her!

    You cannot compare where you got your GSD from. It was handed into a shelter. Do you have its pedigree history? do you know what hereditary diseases run in its family? This does not sound like a dog bred by a KC registered breeder, more like a puppy farmer. Perhaps you should use this anger of yours to attack these people that are actually causing the problems not us innocent breeders!

  105. Ryan O'Meara

    September 23, 2008 at 12:43 am

    Chris Hyde wrote: – “To suggest we let blatently ill dogs win is just completely untrue.”

    How do you explain Danny, the dog who took Best in Show in 2003? The very, very top prize in your profession.

    How do you explain the German Shepherds who are winning regularly who have a very clear and pronounced roach back?

    Find me any KC reg’d pedigree Bulldog in show competition and I’ll show you a blatantly ill dog. I could go on. I just don’t think you’re seeing what everyone else is seeing.

  106. Lisa

    September 23, 2008 at 2:08 am

    I’m continually hearing the argument that there are good breeders out there and the program only highlighted the bad breeders. Have these people failed to note the problem highlight by scientific research shows inbreeding is the cause of high incidence of hereditary disease. This means all breeders who breed pedigree dogs under the Kennel Club rules are to blame. Would it be so awful to occasionally outcross to another breed instead of shamefully trying to divert the blame onto the back yard breeders and puppy farmers, which results in no improvement. Under the current standards if you’re a pedigree breeder following the Kennel Club rules you are the problem.

  107. Sazza

    September 23, 2008 at 4:38 am

    Lisa im afraid you could not be more wrong. Doing that would cause chaos. I eye test, hip and elbow score all my dogs. I also only breed them to dogs that have had the same health checks. Health testing is incouraged by the KC. I have never had an ill dog in all my years breeding. If we were to outcross all the time like you are saying we are not only crossing two completely different bloodlines but we are producing dogs with possibly more health problems that we may not have come accross before. IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN. If we were to do that lisa that would spell doom for our beloved pedigree pets and the images you saw on the programme would become more common.

  108. Ryan O'Meara

    September 23, 2008 at 4:40 am

    Sorry Sazza but you are not correct. Not even close.

    Would you mind linking to this ‘scientific evidence’ you mention?

    All pedigrees are born as a result of crossing then line breeding. Then as you reduce the gene pool (as has to happen with a closed registry such as the one the KC deploy) then you are GUARANTEED to increase and enhance genetic faults. Outcrossing is the ONLY thing you can do to breed out a fault. THAT is science.

  109. Sazza

    September 23, 2008 at 4:55 am

    I beg to differ. When I have the time and am not on my work break I will give you the scientific evidence as i have studied genetics as part of my biochemistry degree. The thing is Ryan nothing will change. There are bigger things in the world to worry about. I would rather solve world hunger before I try and improve dog breeding when its already at such a high standard. Get your priorities right and stop whining about such a non-existant problem.

  110. Ryan O'Meara

    September 23, 2008 at 4:58 am

    And there we have it!

    “non existent problem” ?

    Really?

    And if you’re not worried, why are you wasting time with me? You could be doing something to aid world hunger.

    I’m afraid attitudes like yours are what’s responsible for the mess that dogs are in.

  111. Dave the Dog

    September 23, 2008 at 5:05 am

    Chris
    Ryan beat me to it. If you are a good breeder who does not breed dogs with hidden hereditary conditions, great.
    I don’t have a problem with you unless you are breeding one the the breeds with ridiculously exagerated features perpetuated by the KC and breed standards.

    My Shepherd is just one example, My previous dog was a Black Lab, same background, Hip displacia and OCD.

    I agree that the breed lines of both dogs are unknown, the point is that the conditions both dogs suffer from are hereditory. My GSD also has Hip displacia, that will never cause him a major problem, he will not live to see the end of 2009. My second point is that these dogs were both handed in at under 6 months old. Over the years we have had many young dogs that owners have handed in due to hereditory conditions. When we have contacted the known breeder they have refused to take the dog back, yes they were KC registered.

    “If a dog cannot walk in a straight line or it is slightly lame I will not give it a placing at all.” I should hope not Chris, but it does happen. However worse than that happens and is accepted because the problems are part of the breed standard.

    It says a lot that UK Police Forces and Armed Services are increasingly giving up trying to find suitable dogs in the UK and are sourcing their dogs abroad.

  112. Lisa

    September 23, 2008 at 6:02 am

    Sazza, I too would interested in seeing this research, and the date it was published? Breeding best to best was once thought to be the way to produce a healthier dog, this has been proved time and time again to be a flawed concept, inbreeding in this way only achieves to bring more and more hereditary diseases to the surface.

    Please tell me your thoughts on the research on the links below. Are the scientists wrong and you’re right? Next you’ll be telling me homozygous is healthy and heterozygous is unhealthy
    http://www1.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/news/inbreedingdogs/
    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17966340
    http://www.cawc.org.uk/sites/default/files/CAWCModifications.pdf

  113. Lisa

    September 23, 2008 at 6:21 am

    Quote Chris Hyde “Yes that cavalier won BOB but that was an unnoticeable illness it had which she failed to tell people about. Shame on her!”
    Why then did the breed club close ranks around her and come to her defence? Instead of shunning the breeder Beverley Costello, they shun the likes of Carol Fowler and Margaret Carter instead. To me that says A LOT

  114. James

    September 23, 2008 at 8:30 am

    I am very dissappointed in this site. All you do is attack innocent people.I thought as one of the editors Ryan that you would be more open minded to other peoples’ opinions. Instead I find you quite bullish. I am an owner of two Field spaniels and have nothing to do with breeding or showing dogs. Even I could see how silly this programme was.

  115. Chris Hyde

    September 23, 2008 at 8:55 am

    Ryan

    “How do you explain Danny, the dog who took Best in Show in 2003? The very, very top prize in your profession.”

    Like i said if there is a latent underlying illness in a dog like Danny or the BOB cavalier how are we supposed to know. I did not say all breeders are resposible but the overwhelming majority are. Am i supposed to be a mind reader and know if a dog has a hidden illness? It is impossible to know.

    As for the GSP’S!!! If you have ever been to a dog show you will know that all dogs are placed in a standing position by their owners so it is ALSO IMPOSSIBLE to know whether they have bad feet, pasterns etc as they are all placed neatly to give the dog a clean outline. It is up to the exhibitors to be responsible and not enter dogs and then hide their faults. Also when they are on the move their hair (depending on its length) and fast pace disguise any obvious problems. So until you are a judge you will realise how difficult it is to spot these problems when you only have 2 minutes to judge a dog.

  116. peter gunn

    October 7, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    my name is peter gunn my daughter lucy aquired a pug(bitch)lola in feb 2007up to this present date lola has had 4 ops due to a condition know as laryngeal collapse,the latter op requiring a permanent tracheostamy,the dog was purchased for £1200,at present we are currently seeking compensation and becoming a messy affair,is their anybody who has had similar problem and how did you deal with it,and is their anybody who could give us advice on this matter.
    thanking you mr p j gunn

  117. Dyane Jones

    October 7, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    >Posted by Claire Petrie 20th August, 2008 at 1:00 am
    I am shocked and appalled ( as I am sure that you are too ) at the conditions of the dogs of this programme last night. ……………. the GSDs who would never (IMO) be able to work. <

    Hm interesting as both the GSDs show have working qualifications & were fully health tested & were from Germany(the BOB is resident in Germany)

    All my dogs are fully health tested(& I’m a ABS breeder)tomorrow I will be investing another £200 in health screening on a bitch I might never breed from.

    How many mongrels are health screeed ? & please don’t roll out that they don’t have health problems because they have exactly the same basic genetic make up asa pedigree dog

  118. Dyane Jones

    October 7, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    quote>Posted by Dave the Dog 23rd September, 2008 at 5:05 am
    Chris
    ……………………..
    My Shepherd is just one example, My previous dog was a Black Lab, same background, Hip displacia and OCD.

    I agree that the breed lines of both dogs are unknown, the point is that the conditions both dogs suffer from are hereditory. My GSD also has Hip displacia, that will never cause him a major problem, he will not live to see the end of 2009. My second point is that these dogs were both handed in at under 6 months old. Over the years we have had many young dogs that owners have handed in due to hereditory conditions. When we have contacted the known breeder they have refused to take the dog back, yes they were KC registered.
    …………………
    It says a lot that UK Police Forces and Armed Services are increasingly giving up trying to find suitable dogs in the UK and are sourcing their dogs abroad.<

    The Police are importing adult fully trained & health tested GSDs from Germany, Belgium etc from the same/similar/related to the dogs that were shown @ Crufts. They are finding that the donated dogs(usually bred from un KC reg parents are not suitable & most forces will not buy in puppies.

    The forces that breed their own dogs are turning to imported stud dogs(from Germany etc)simlar(& in some cases the dogs being shown here in the UK)from the SV(Germany GSD registry)stock.

    The Police do not want the old fashioned Alsatian because the breeders of the”English”type do not health test for inherent health problems(HD ED etc)They opt for the “modern”Germanic type from working lines, who are tested not only for health, but working ability, character & conformation to the breed standard. I know because a force boought a young German bred dog from me who became a highly successful serving Police dog

  119. Dyane Jones

    October 7, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    quote>Posted by Anon 20th August, 2008 at 2:27 am
    I am disgusted at what I witnessed during the show last night. I will NOT attend Crufts again nor will I buy a Kennel Club registered dog in the future as clearly they are NOT any different from any other unregistered or cross breed dog. Shame on the Kennel Club for misleading the public in this way and implying their dogs are healthier!! I hope the BBC comes to its senses and withdraws all publicity for the Kennel Club for the dogs sake!<

    So you will be buying pedigree dogs from unregistered, unhealth tested parents, possibly closely related ????? I do not understand your logic

    Not every breeder(in fact very very few)do close breedings such as brother/sister etc-this is far more common amoungst those who breed non registered dogs & have no knowledge of the breeding of their dogs. They may have two dogs & simply allow them to breed & breed & then their offspring do the same-the buyers will have no way of knowing. Anyone can make up a pedigree & register with a commerical company like Dog Lovers Registration Club who will register any dogs. You can even register dogs with them that do not exist, they do not have breed databases to check.

    I will give you an example of the tess I have had done on my dogs-DNA tests for CEA(CH)-Collie Eye Anomaly( Choroidal Hypoplasia)an eye condition that can mean the dog is blind, TNS-Trapped Neurophil Syndrome-dogs die if they have this, NCL-Neuronal Ceriod Lipofuscinosis-dogs that have this die, MDR 1-MultiDrug Reaction-if dogs that have this are given certain drugs they can have bad reactons & die. Clinical tests for Hip Dysplasia & Progressive Retinal Atrophy. these are fast becoming standard tests being done on one of my breeds-not a fancy show breed, but a British working breed, Border Collies. KC registered dogs are far more likely to have had all the health tests done than even the working sheepdogs from the ISDS(the registry for shepherd/farmer bred dogs)

    So if you were to buy an unregistered Border Collie-odds are that the breeder willnot even have heard of any of these conditions let alone tested for them

  120. Aunty Beeb

    October 11, 2008 at 4:57 am

    Quote: ‘very much hope that if Crufts is shown again on the BBC, it will be as a very different kind of show. Sack Ben Fogle and hire some good investigative journalists, a geneticist and a vet (without vested interests).’

    Dont forget Peter Purves as well as the ‘Geordie and the American’ double act too when it comes to the sackings!

    lol

  121. Lisa

    October 15, 2008 at 5:14 am

    Dyane Jones said “How many mongrels are health screeed ? & please don’t roll out that they don’t have health problems because they have exactly the same basic genetic make up asa pedigree dog.”
    No they don’t. Mongrels have open gene pools (genetic diversity), pedigree dogs have closed gene pools (restricted and reduced genetic diversity). The reason pedigrees suffer from a high incidence of hereditary disease is due to the increased chance of two of the very same disease carrying genes meeting up in a closed gene pool compared to a mongrel’s open and varied gene pool. The problem is then increased again by breeders reducing genetic diversity further, in gene pools which are already closed, by line breeding to fix traits. With open and varied gene pools (mongrels) there is arguably little need to health test. In closed gene pools health testing is required if you are to avoid the likelihood of two of the same disease carrying genes meeting up. Unfortunately though pedigree dogs have become so inbred there are more hereditary diseases than there are specific health tests available. Continuing to reduce gene pools to win shows is the reason pedigree dogs are in the state they’re in. To try to pass blame onto back yard breeders, who although are not health testing are likely to randomly mate and therefore less likely to reduce, although not impossible, gene pools further, only serves to cover up the real problem by passing the blame, a problem the very top KC breeders are themselves causing. Until the breeders who are supposed to care accept this and follow the advice of population geneticists, pedigrees will continue to suffer, no doubt to the point where they’re gene pools will become so reduced they cease to exist, while in the mean time a large portion of pedigree dogs are suffering.

  122. Janny

    October 21, 2008 at 1:26 am

    Alot has been said on this site about the faults in pedigree dogs since the BBC program brought the problems to the forground. However no-one can say how irradicate these breed faults in the breeds mentioned.Breeding dogs has become big business with the cost of the dogs and the Insurance that you are persuaded to have for them, which really isn’t worth the paper it is written on. It comes down to the fact that if you have a problem with any animal be it pedigree or not you still have to foot the bill for that animal and wait until your insurer decides whether or not they will pay up your incurred vets bill. When the animal gets into old age the premium get larger and the pay out becomes less. I have had German Shepherds for 20 years and have had problems with all of them. The first had hip displasia and then dislocated her neck at the age of 8 years old and had to be eusthanised The second suffered from arthritis from the age of 7 years although her hip score was good. She also suffered from degenerative mylopathy and furunculosis from the same age.She lasted until she was 10years old when one morning she got up went outside and her back end collapsed so there was nothing the vet could do to save her.The Vet said that these problems were all too common in German Shepherds. The breeder of her said that if you got a German Shepherd over the age of 8 yers you had done well!!!!!!!!!! My 3rd Gds is now 2years and 3 months old and when I had her hip scored at 18months old her score was horrendous and she was already showing signs of athritis around her hip joints.I also have a 7month old pup who is showing signs of becoming cow hocked so I will be interested to see what her hip score shows up when she becomes one year old.I have followed the guide lines with all of them by not overwalking them until their bones are fully formed. My Vet says that german shepherds are born with loose hips and that they don’t firm up until they are one year old.From the puppy stage they are extremely active dogs so it is difficult to stop them running around and jumping up, it is in their nature to do this. My Vet tells me that it is not my fault that these problems have occurred it is a breed fault.The first Gds I had came from what I suppose you would term as a puppy farmer The second and fourth from the same breeder who was also a show judge The 2year old from a breeder who I really feel cares about his dogs and is always on hand if I need help or advice. Unless you can find a German shepherd who has been bred from 2 dogs with a nil hip score you stand to have an animal with with problems in later life as the hereditary problem will carry forward into any pups produced in future generations. I therefore cannot see that these faults can be irradicated now. I also have a Jack Russell cross and he is the healtiest and fittest of all of them which I feel says it all.

  123. JonR

    February 11, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    I have said this for years! Those people that support the KC need their heads examined. Whether that being by supporting Crufts or indeed buying a KC reg dog. Apart from Breeders, I don't understand why ANYONE would need a peice of paper to prove the pedigree (or worth) of a dog! Lets face it, unless you intend to breed your dog, your registration is worthless. All i am interested in when buying a puppy, is seeing and interacting with its parents. I have had GSD dogs all my life and i don't need a KC registration to tell me who they are or what they are.

    I have watched crufts once, and it made me sick to my stomach. Unnatural dogs with fur shaved from their legs and body. GSD's that need a certain posture and 'sloping' spine! Without doubt inbred!

    I hope that Crufts never returns to the Beeb, or any other channel for that matter.

  124. nation shall speak unto nation

    September 29, 2009 at 10:22 am

    As an exhibitor at Crufts I am disadvantaged by the BBC’s position.

    As a dog lover I am proud to contribute to an organisation that has the guts to stand up to the practices sanctioned by the KC.

    Anyone who thinks that the GSD looks normal is at best myopic.

  125. Sad15

    October 23, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Nothing to learn from Sweden. ,

  126. Mark

    July 3, 2010 at 8:38 am

    We bought a “Champion quality bloodline” Havanese last year from Siegreich kennels , first was shocked it was an Eastern European , but he had the patter, Bought the dog… HUGE MISTAKE dog was unhealthy according to my vet, had bad eyes, bad teeth and was very grimy and smelly.

    He told us “All English breeders want my blood lines, they have crap quality sickly doggies in England”

    Told us “My dog is World Champion and he is my dog” I asked did he breed him he said of course. Since found that was just another lie.

    He had lots of false paperwork (checked it all out) He had false vet books , he had vaccinated the dogs himself, he is evil and I told the KC about him and the RSPCA.

    ZOLTAN JOO IS A PUPPY FARMER there had to be 100 dogs at that house it reeked very badly of piss and shit and the dogs even the father (never saw the mother ) was yukky to touch he smelled like piss.

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