Dog Health

Got a Spare £8k to Help Cavaliers? (It’s not for health btw, it’s for PR)

cavalier king charles puppy

Cavaliers King Charles Spaniels are a breed in the spotlight at the moment.

For those who didn’t see Pedigree Dogs Exposed and managed to evade any of the subsequent media coverage and debate, the documentary brought to national attention a terrible state of affairs affecting the breed.

Here’s a brief summary.

Cavaliers suffer with a terrible inherited disease called Syringomyelia (SM). A truly horrifying condition that causes the dog excruciating pain. Pedigree Dogs Exposed showed Cavaliers who were suffering with the illness.

The documentary also showed a Cavalier exhibitor running a dog in a show who was a carrier of this condition. In fact, this particular dog in question had been used at stud even though his owner knew he was a SM carrier.

The documentary showed Cavalier breed ‘supporters’ – basically – harranging the documentary makers once they had discovered that the makers of the film had exposed the SM carrying dog’s owner to have KNOWN about her dog’s status despite claims to the contrary. The documentary showed a breed in trouble and a highly unsavoury element of its supposed supporters.

However, one Cavalier enthusiast shone through.

Margaret Carter stepped forward and revealed what was happening to her much loved breed. An avid Cavalier health campaigner, Margaret’s words should have stirred support from within the Cavalier breed community and galvanised a fight to help the breed out of its current predicament.

But, alas, no.

Instead the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club voted to EXPEL Margaret from their committee. Inexplicable behaviour which drew condemnation from the Kennel Club and the dog loving community at large.

So, no getting away from it – a breed in trouble and much of the blame lies with those who don’t know the difference between doing what’s right for the breed and what’s right for their own ludicrous egos.

So today it comes as somewhat of surprise to learn that there is an attempt underway to drum up £8,000 for PR SERVICES from those involved in the breed!

Yes, you read that correctly. £8,000 NOT for a health initiative – £8,000 for hiring an expensive PR professional.

An incredible email – seen by K9 Magazine – highlights an outrageous lack of perspective and self interest as support is drummed up for Cavalier lovers to put their hands in their pocket and find the cash for this PR guru to come in and paint a different picture of what’s happening with the breed.

The amazing thing, even Max Clifford himself (a former K9 Magazine interviewee) understands that a genie can not be put BACK IN to a bottle once it’s been released. The world’s most prestigious PR person would surely understand that dog breed health is nothing to do with PR, it’s to do with reality. It’s to do with having good, honest people on side who truly care for the breed and want to put right the wrongs. This is not a time for window dressing.

If there’s a spare £8k splashing about within the Cavalier community, here’s a tip – spend it where it’s needed: ON THE HEALTH OF THE BREED.

But at least if we start seeing some unusually positive coverage of Cavaliers, hinting that Pedigree Dogs Exposed was nothing more than ‘tabloid TV made by a meanie with a vendetta against pedigree dogs’ – well at least we’ll all know where it’s come from.

You really do have to worry about a breed if those who are supposed to be its guardians are reaching for the chequebook for an image makeover rather than putting their money where it’s most needed.

92 Comments

92 Comments

  1. Aileen

    December 11, 2008 at 7:13 am

    I think that £8000 should be going into the health issue MVD and SM and not onto trying to fool people yet again
    –Aileen

  2. Jan Bell

    December 12, 2008 at 1:37 am

    The Cavalier breed is still much loved and supported – discussing the issues of SM and MVD will not end the Cavalier breed, but trying to pretend that they don't exist will.

    Spending £8,000 on PR is yet another move by the CKCS Club not to face up to real problems – even the Kennel Club is now accepting that change is going to come, and adapting the organisation to move with the change – not perfect perhaps, but a start.

    We don't need a PR man spinning the facts. The best PR for Cavaliers would be the top breeders agreeing to scan their dogs and follow the breeding protocols as recommended by the Club itself, from the very research the Club has funded. There are CKCS Club members openly boasting that they will not have their dogs scanned or follow the recommended breeding protocols, and the Club seems to accept this without comment.

    Oh, and they could also stop blocking new member's applications, which they appear to be doing to stop anyone joining the Club who might support the re-election of Margaret Carter back onto the Committee.

    • renatab

      December 12, 2008 at 8:43 am

      Can I ask Jan Bell where she is getting her information that it is the CKCSC that is engaging a PR firm? Or is it a case of jumping to the wrong conclusion? Renata

    • Toodyay

      December 15, 2008 at 11:21 am

      These new members applications, one of them wouldn't have been boasting on the Internet about how many family, friends and workmates that they could get to join to boost the vote for Ms Carter would they? Did the proposer personally know them as is required? there is evidence on the Internet to suggest not.

  3. Nessie Logn

    December 12, 2008 at 2:47 am

    Its such a pity for the Cavalier King Spaniel Breed that no one seems willing to print the full truth on the position of the Cavaliers Health. SM is an issue within the breed but its not contained within the breed but also found in other small dog breeds. Too the percentage has been very much exaggerated, and theories have been presented as facts. More research is needed before a conclusion can be reached to why Cavaliers and other small breeds are affected with SM. Another fact that has been hidden is that a large proportion of SM affected Cavaliers and Cavaliers with other health issues, have been poorly breed on Puppy Farms.

    Nothing is being done to stop Puppy Farming and indiscriminate breeding of Cavaliers. Instead there has been persecution of good breeders who are doing all with in their power to breed healthy Cavalier.

    There is no talk of the many of us have had and still have healthy Cavaliers many reaching grand old ages but then that does not make good news, where as the hype of exploding brains does.

    Nessie Logan

    • folly

      December 12, 2008 at 5:34 am

      i agree totally with nessie logans comments, i am also shocked and dismayed by ryans reporting i had understood that he was unbiased but as yet has not reported the positive moves being made by good breeders and caring cooperative owners on the issues at hand and as for jan bells comments, the cav club has nothing to do with the pr co it is a group of caring mri scanning people that just want someone to help redress the balance abit after all none of these reporters seem interested in such a lovely breed or else they would not be lumping the puppy farmers in with decent cavalier loving breeders. i am not say ing every breeder is great but every puppy farmer is certainly bad. come on ryan do your research and see from the centres all round the country how many cavs have just been scanned for diagnostic purposes, would breeders do this if they didn't care?

  4. Nessie Logan

    December 12, 2008 at 4:36 am

    Bet ,
    I think it can recover, if we are allowed to see both sides of the coin. At the moment only post with exaggerated claims are being seen in print. As I tried to state here earlier today but it has been removed,Its such a pity for the Cavalier King Spaniel Breed that no one seems willing to print the full truth on the position of the Cavaliers Health. SM is an issue within the breed but its not contained within the breed but also found in other small dog breeds. Too the percentage has been very much exaggerated, and theories have been presented as facts. More research is needed before a conclusion can be reached to why Cavaliers and other small breeds are affected with SM. Another fact that has been hidden is that a large proportion of SM affected Cavaliers and Cavaliers with other health issues, have been poorly breed on Puppy Farms.

    Nessie Logan

  5. Rick

    December 12, 2008 at 7:26 am

    Actually, Margaret wasn't expelled from the Cavalier club for the reason given in this article- so this is simpl another example of incorrect journalsm. And unfortunately, people "believe what they read" without looking for the truth. There's more to it than is being reported here.

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 12, 2008 at 8:19 am

      Well if there's 'more to it' perhaps you'd like to enlighten us?

  6. Fairplay

    December 12, 2008 at 8:08 am

    Ryan seems to want to tar all breeders with the same brush! Would he make scathing comments about all car drivers because some choose to drink and drive! Would he condemn all athletes because some take perfomance enhancing drugs? Most cavalier breeders really love their dogs and care deeply about health issues and want to do what is right. What Folly says is true. Not all breeders are great, but there is no such thing as a good puppy farmer! They do not test for anything, the dogs often live in appalling conditions, bitches are bred from every season, pups are are badly reared and often sold on to dealers when they are too young to leave their mothers. The public still buy these puppies, often because they are cheap and always available on the internet. Many of these poor creatures live short, painful lives……..and who gets the blame……CAVALIER BREEDERS. What can we do but try to redress the balance a little?

  7. Ryan O'Meara

    December 12, 2008 at 8:18 am

    Fairplay, perhaps you could point out where I've 'tarred all breeders' – I'm pretty sure you'll struggle. And talk about missing the problem!! 'Redress the balance'? How about you invest your cash where it's most needed – ON THE HEALTH OF THE DOGS!

    • Toodyay

      December 15, 2008 at 10:40 am

      Redress the balance??? How about all these five minute wonders, who are so damning of breeders, take up breeding themselves. It is so easy to criticise.

  8. Bet Hargreaves

    December 12, 2008 at 8:37 am

    Ryan, just for once get your facts right,
    Neither wonder the the Cavalier Breed needs heip from a PR Firm ,as you well know the Press have Latched onto Exaggerated Claims of Cavaliers of having Large Brains, that they are like getting a Size 10 Foot into a Size 6 Shoe ,of which there is NO SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION ,and the Press now say the CAVALIERS' BRAINS ARE EXPLODING.

    How would you deal with this Statement from the Press ?

    I would love to know!

    Bet Hargreaves

  9. Aileen

    December 12, 2008 at 9:05 am

    I argee put the money were it will do the most good
    –Aileen

  10. Bet Hargreaves

    December 12, 2008 at 9:14 am

    Ryan ,

    OH YES there WAS !!!!!

    Where did it disappear to. ?

    Bet Hargreaves

  11. Ryan O'Meara

    December 12, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Sorry – I have no idea what your comment is referring to??

  12. Pauline Persson

    December 12, 2008 at 10:27 am

    £8K spent on scans and research would do far more for the CKCSC's PR. Please stick to the SM and MVD breeding protocol to have any hope of saving this breed.

  13. Bet Hargreaves

    December 12, 2008 at 10:51 am

    Ryan.I was commenting on my First Post ,8-30 am this morning about the need for the Cavalier Breed to employ a PR Firm to counteract the Claims of the Press about the Exploding Brains of the Cavalier Breed

    Hopefully now, the Public will not be being given the Exaggerated Claims about the SM Problem in the Cavalier Breed.

    That at last the TRUE SCIENTIFIC FACTS will be given and not Claims based on suppositions

    If only this had been adherred at the beginning ,the Cavalier Breed would'nt be on it's knees as it is to-day

    Will it ever Recover ,that is the $64,000 Question

    Bet Hargreaves

  14. Barbara

    December 12, 2008 at 11:56 am

    There seems to be this erroneous information that tars breeders as greedy profiteers preying upon the public and living off the proceeds from churning out unhealthy dogs. Sure there may be a few breeders who make a profit from their dogs. Is that a sin? The breed relies upon breeders to maintain breeding dogs to perpetuate the breed. The road to improving the breed will be long, slow, and sometimes heartbreaking, not to mention expensive and with huge personal commitment on the part of breeders. Breeders, not pet owners, not journalists, not the media . nor petitions or politicians will improve the breed. The RSPCA and the KC will not improve the breed. They do not breed. It will be dedicated, courageous, and determined breeders who will keep up the fight. So they have decided to stick up for their breed. They have decided not to whine and snivel but to yell from the rooftops. More power to them.

  15. D. Lee

    December 12, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Actually Ryan, you give such a positive article, too bad you don't actually spend some time and do your own research and find out what is really going on with the breed. There are some who have benefited monetarily ly from this one side exposure as well as through research but whatever you do, don't report that, you just fit right in with the scab papers looking for an article that will keep things stirred up. Never mind the damage that you and others who lurk on lists and then report their findings so that you have something to print. Gee I bet you have no puppy farms over there that those poor animals could actually use the help through publicity but then it is common place for you and other to over look that. Don't put the help were it is needed because people might just think you are a decent human being looking out for the unfortunate that can not speak for themselves .

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 12, 2008 at 9:20 am

      See, 'scab papers' – I'm afraid comments like this simply show how detached some people have become from the reality of public feeling on this issue. It's nice that you'd defend the breed but some of you defend it to the point where you make your own situation worse. No amount of PR spend is going to undo the behaviour as has been witnessed on PDE and the shameful expulsion of a committee member who spoke out about health issues. From a publisher, take it from me, simply not going to happen. Time and effort would be better spent on the health of your breed, not fighting a battle you have no chance of ever winning.

  16. Fairplay

    December 13, 2008 at 2:24 am

    I have invested my cash where it is most needed by scanning my dogs!

  17. Bet Hargreaves

    December 13, 2008 at 5:50 am

    John ,as I have tried to explain ,because of the Article in the Daily Mail saying Cavaliers have EXPLODING BRAINS ,a PR Firm needs to involved to counteract this Lie ,just tell me John ,how would try to convince the Public this not TRUE !!

    Bet Hargreaves

  18. Bet Hargreaves

    December 13, 2008 at 9:36 am

    What sensible Posts Nessie has written ,if only some Folk would take a Step back and listen to what she has said .

    Is it too late though ,there now seems to be such a Bitter Vindictive Hatred for Cavalier Breeders

    Is it more about this than any-thing else ?

  19. John Lilburne

    December 13, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Instead of attacking Ryan for reporting facts, surely the club and breeders should be looking at using the money to investigate the health issues of their breed and not using a PR guru at great cost?

    The dog owner in the street can see that not all CKCS breeders are wrong or breeding from dogs with life threatening illnesses. as usual however if your not part of 'the club' you must therefore have no knowledge or education and cannot know anything about dogs!

    PR spinning via the KC only gets peoples backs up as it shows that they are alleging they are getting on with things but at the same time 'spinning off track' by making out how great they are advising people here there and everywhere about other issues when they really should be getting their own house in order first.

    Save the money and use it for health screening.

    100 St Bernards rescued by the RSPCA from a founder member of the KC ABS blows all the current KC spin out of the water, who can believe anything coming out of their HQ at the moment?

  20. Ryan O'Meara

    December 14, 2008 at 1:40 am

    OK, three things for you to consider.

    1) I have nothing against the breed as you state. I have a LOT against some of the people WITHIN the breed who have contributed to the poor dogs having to suffer terribly. Your statement that I have 'condemned' the breed is, quite simply, a lie. I have NEVER condemned ANY dog breed – but I will unashamedly condemn breeders who are incompetent and self interested.

    2) Whatever way you want to spin it, Margaret Carter was a member of the committee of the CKCS club. Then a vote was taken to remove her. I know, I've seen the numbers. So again, twisting and turning like a flag in the wind is exactly what I'm talking about. You need to do LESS of that and concentrate more where it is needed. No PR guru in the world will be able to spin what happened to Margaret as anything other than what is was – stupid, misguided, bitter fools with their priorities wrapped round their necks. Shameful.

    3) I am 'affording' you the consideration to do and say as you wish on these pages. This is known as a right to reply, you've been given yours and I'm afraid to say, it's less than impressive when held up to scrutiny.

  21. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 2:02 am

    ryan we ARE trying to less of THAT but it's you that keeps on bringing margaret into the mix and refusing to acknowledge the positive things that ARE being done by good people as in your breed.and if you are not condemning our breed you are very good at making it look like it!!!

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 14, 2008 at 2:21 am

      Of course I will bring Margaret in to the mix! Her expulsion is symptomatic of the worst kind of people who can be involved in a dog breed. Unfortunately for you, this is your breed so may I ask you – do you support that club in their expulsion of Margaret and are you happy that the people who voted her out are still sat their having an effect on the breed? Because I know for a fact, I wouldn't be. It is not MY JOB to acknowledge the 'good work' being done, it should be a given. It's an attitude that I find laughably childish: "Acknowledge me, acknowledge me". In fact it is exactly the sort of thing that children do – they are asked to behave in order to be given a treat and when it is denied them because they did something incredibly badly behaved they immediately scramble for some kind of recognition for a time when they behaved normally. Doing over and above for the breed is something we'll acknowledge. In fact we have – in Margaret Carter, we'll give her and her ilk praise all day, all week. It's a shame you haven't recognised that.

  22. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 2:11 am

    by the way previous posts by you stated many breeders behavour and the last post it was some breeders try a FEW breeders [puppy farmers excluded] and you will be nearer the truth!!!

  23. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 3:03 am

    ryan it may not be your job to acknowledge good [altough you were defensive about that regarding your own breed!] but is it your job then not to disclose the truth even though it may not be to your liking? it seems to me you have one focus mc at the expense of every one elses work and opinion i am so sorry you find the word acknowledge so childish, personally i have always held it in the sense of fair play but maybe you don't know about things like that

  24. Bet Hargreaves

    December 14, 2008 at 4:17 am

    Could I answer about the TV Film made by Jemima Harrison

    I informed her that the SM Problem is NOT CONFINED TO THE CAVALIER BREED,it is known as as SMall Breed Disease,

    Was she interested ,NO CHANCE!!!

    I also informed her that the SM Figures for Cavaliers could be Biased they were Based on Clinical Cases seen by a Neurologist

    Finally I said to her that there was Research being done at the moment by Dr D Marino ,Neurologist ,Chief of Staff ,at LIVS ,America ,into the BRAIN VOLUMN of Cavaliers and other Small Breeds ,that there was NO SCIENTIFIC Information about this , the Research ,is on-going ,

    Was she interested .Another NO CHANCE!!

  25. Hazel Ford

    December 14, 2008 at 4:48 am

    I just came across this pet owner's story on the net, and thought of this K9 magazine article. It refers to their struggle, from 1999 forward,, to get the word out about SM in Cavaliers through the CKCS Club of Great Britain.

    "Before long the reality of the situation became clear. Our efforts to learn more about syringomyelia and to disseminate this information were not appreciated. While some individual breeders gave their support and encouragement, others did not welcome our intrusion. Letters and emails to the CKCS and its associated club went unanswered and so we created this website to tell Holly's Story."

    http://website.lineone.net/~malburley/page5.html

    I continues to look like image is still too high on the priority list of this club. How sad for the Cavalier breed.

  26. John Lilburne

    December 14, 2008 at 5:25 am

    Folly, like all things, when something is running smoothly, nobody becomes agitated or confrontational about whatever it is that is running smoothly. However when there is evidence of something going wrong or not being sorted out properly, surely it is right that people can comment? Even somebody like me, just an ordinary dog owner knows that not all CKCS are suffering, and do not blame all CKCS breeders or club members or whatever the technical term is for you and your fellow Cavalier people. What is wrong is that even when there was proof or knowledge of what was going on, it appeared that the big wigs of the CKCS Club were having none of it and acted pretty appallingly (it was on camera). If they had said 'thanks for bringing this to our attention, we are looking in to it…..and we already have a committee member Margaret working on various issues', there would have been none of the furore and it would have been just another investigative journalism documentary. The public would have more than likely thought that the programme had highlighted issues that the people in charge were going to resolve. Bet, did Jemima Harrison actually say NO CHANCE to you when you approached her re SM research?

  27. Bet Hargreaves

    December 14, 2008 at 6:06 am

    Just curious ,why was'nt any of the information I gave her not used , I had also sent her the Researchers information for her use. .

    I was in contact with her for about 8 months .

    Do you ever feel you are Banging your Head Against a Brick Wall.

    I sure do now!!!!!

    Bet Hagreaves

  28. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 6:25 am

    john let me furnish you with some facts 1997 was the first sm seminar followed by several very well attended seminars you must appreciate that no one in 96 was fully aware of what sm was but as soon as they were aware the protocols started kicking in to place and yes margaret had a lot to do with this as did other members of the health commitee one of them took several dogs to a neurologist and negotiated a reduced price for diagnostic mri scans [which before that were about £1000] the other members then started negotiating with other centres meanwhile mc fund raised to help people be able to afford the scans the club paid for an international conference of all the worldwide neurologists involved which breeders also attended since those days breeders[not all] have been scanning their dogs over a thousand have now been done. The figures to begin with were naturally high for sm as at the start mainly problem ones were being seen, but as more and more breeders are doing it before they breed there are far more clear dogs than first thought..

  29. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 6:31 am

    there were other people on the health commitee but margaret was the only one who disclosed confidences, creating a mistrust in the system now whether you agree or not would you expect to go to the doctor and the people in the waiting room tell you they know you have cancer?

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 14, 2008 at 7:26 am

      Absolutely bogus analogy. We're not talking about people's private health care here and if you don't see that then I think it is quite revealing about the sort of misguided thought processes that have gone in to this ridiculous decision. I hardly need to be condemning people involved in this breed when their own words are digging them deeper in to the hole. Breed health committee for canines and doctor dealing with human cancer information for a private individual – absolutely priceless!

  30. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 6:42 am

    no one wants to breed unhealthy dogs it's in no ones interest especially all the dogs. when we breed puppies it is generally for the next generation and yes we do sell the remainder, it helps pay back all the money we've spent out we just get some back in alump sum, most breeders do not make vast profits contrary to popular belief we do it because we love having dogs i'm not saying we're saints the money can be useful but any good breeder trying to run it as a business would have gone bankcrupt years ago, but nothing can beat the production of life in a safe environment watching puppies develop and grow into little dogs and the excitment and pleasure watching mum rollover and play with them, these are the things the public need to know why we do it not just being money grabbers. we are upset at the possible demise of our lovely breed through incorrect public opinion driven by the media. i hop my 3 posts has clarified some points for you.

  31. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 7:41 am

    you have dug a hole ryan the breed health commitee is a FACT sorry it upsets you so much to actually be told it exists how else do think so much dedication has been given to the issues of health? check with margaret herself as you are so shocked at the thought the cavalier club can care so much!!!! and surely confidentiality should be maintained when one is in a position of trust? or are you now showing your true colours?

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 14, 2008 at 7:49 am

      Dear oh dear. I know EXACTLY what happened and it is WHAT HAPPENED that I am declaring is indicative of stupid people with stupid ideals that do NOT benefit dogs. You don't seem to understand that. And that is absolutely nothing even close to be equal to a doctor dealing with a private patient. I'm beginning to see why the PR is so desperately needed, people who say they are for the breed but in reality they're completely in denial about what is for the best for that dog breed and would rather play politics in the misguided impression that they have some moral justification. As I say, shameful.

  32. Ryan O'Meara

    December 14, 2008 at 7:51 am

    Erm, no. Perhaps you would like to point out where I've come close to?

  33. Fairplay

    December 14, 2008 at 8:00 am

    Can I add a few more facts here? __1) There are around 1800 litters of cavaliers (about 11000 puppies) registered with the kennel club each year. ONLY ABOUT 700 of these litters are from members of the Cavalier Club, the rest are BYB's, pet owners or puppy farms who do noanything!__2) It is believed that an equal number of puppies (11000) are also bred by puppy farmers and not registered or are registered with other organizations. Again none of these will be tested!__Can you see what we are up against? Each time one of these poor little creatures are diagnosed with a hereditary disease who gets the blame? Yes. Cavalier breeders. We are all lumped together. Caring breeders and those that want to make a fast buck.

  34. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 8:13 am

    ryan you have been condemning ALL DAY accusing all breeders when in fact i am only one person again lumping every one together as usual! everything i say to you is offensive but you can say the very same thing and actually think it's intelligent!! i'm sorry i can't get comprehend your logic but you are right dealing with people like you is the reason we do need a pr co to deal with such blinkered reporting

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 14, 2008 at 8:31 am

      Ahh, see – now this is where I can stop responding to you. I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt and address their points if they have some validity but when they out and out lie and make things up, I'm more than happy to leave them to their own devices to talk to themselves.

  35. Fairplay

    December 14, 2008 at 8:16 am

    There are many, many caring breeders out there who are doing the best for the breed but get no recognition. The Cavalier Club has always been open and honest about any problems found in the breed and have doanted many thousands of pounds towards research projects. The reason we were all so upset with MC is that she failed to say any of this in the TV program, which we believed that as health representative she should have done. It made it sopund as if the club didn't care which was far from the truth. She also failed to say that the top winning Cavalier of all time was MRI scanned and clear of SM and also holds a current clear heart certificate………or maybe Jemima Harrison didn't wish that to be known! !

    • Nessie Logan

      December 14, 2008 at 9:44 am

      I agree with all Fairplay has stated here. My daughter came to me today in tears after reading an article that appeared in a newspaper this weekend asking if I should consider having my Cavalier PTS. She could not bear to think of the little chap having to go through all this pain. The public now think its cruel to even own a CKCS. So we desperately need someone to present a more balanced picture of what is going on in the Cavalier world. All this one sided publicity has done nothing for the CKCS's health problems. The whole issue seems more about individual personalities than getting to the route of the problem. The sooner we have someone who will present ALL the facts to the public the better.

      Nessie Logan.

      • Nessie Logan

        December 14, 2008 at 10:57 am

        I commend Georgio for her statements. however, we are not going to get a level playing field. Alas its all about Margaret who may have worked her socks of in the past for Cavalier Health. All that good work is now lost by the damage she has done by being short sighted in allowing the publicity in the format it appeared. It was bias! Now I wish we could leave personalities out of the equation, and unite and put the CKCS future first. Nothing has changed regarding the health of the CKCS, it is no sicker now than it was before the publicity.However, someone needs to put the public straight. Is there no one out there who is not of the MC fan club that is willing to set the record straight?

        Nessie

    • Georgio

      December 14, 2008 at 10:12 am

      Ryan, I am new to this site but a long time owner of Cavaliers and I am sorry to say the your portrayal of the majority of breeders is alien to me. Yes there are a few bad apples as in every walk of life, but the majority care passionately about their breed .Nobody wants to breed dogs, the vast majority of which will go to loving pet homes, that will have a poor quality of life.

      Can you not at least be gracious enough to admit that some of us who have had Cavaliers for most of our lives feel that the breed we love is being publically castigated and we have the right to reply.
      I only wish that some of the energy put into pde had gone into exposing the vile puppy farms and the dreadful exploitation of bitches. Locally I can tell you that Vets see many of these puppies, sold far too young with a number of complaints and they try to steer the public towards breeders who they know will at least have given the puppies a good start in life.
      Nobody wants to brush this issue under the carpet, but I have always been told that you should listen to both sides of a story and not be judge jury and executioner –

      Lets please have a level playing field

      • Ryan O'Meara

        December 14, 2008 at 10:26 am

        I don't need to 'admit' anything. For the principle reason that I haven't, not once, ever condemned 'all breeders'. I'll await the first person who can bring me evidence of my doing that in order for me to address the specific comment or statement where I have condemned 'all breeders' – because, simply put, I know for a fact I haven't. Until then all people are doing is simply making up their own reality to suit themselves and not reading what is written.

    • Jemima Harrison

      December 21, 2008 at 9:12 am

      "She also failed to say that the top winning Cavalier of all time was MRI scanned and clear of SM and also holds a current clear heart certificate…. or maybe Jemima Harrison didn't wish that to be known!" It is fantastic that this dog has been scanned and is clear, but this is just ONE dog. What about all the other current top stud dogs, Fairplay, that have NOT been scanned? Additionally, every single one of the top stud dogs have been used underage, in total disregard of both the MVD and SM protocols.

  36. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 8:18 am

    i am rather confused one minute ryan is reporting the cavalier is in trouble and condems breeders then he says he knows there are good breeders but chooses not to state that in any of his articles also makes it sound like the ckcs club are doing nothing and accuses the breeders of wasting money on pr which incidentally hasn't been spent, then says we are not allowed to stick up for our dogs which some people have had for years without problems oh yes ryan that is true!! why shouyld we be castigated for trying to do the right thing by our dogs. i would like to ask ryan other than the recent health issues[although i know you choose to not believe that are being addressed but they actually are but not by puppy farmers] what else is wrong with them? that you keep on with this relentless witch hunt when your reporting good do so much good for all breeds by dealing with the cruelty inflicted by the puppy farmers.

  37. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 8:18 am

    and actually ryan i was talking about an nhs patient

  38. Fairplay

    December 14, 2008 at 8:23 am

    Jemima Harrison also chose not to include any part of the lengthy interview she had with the eye specialist who said how well the breed had done in eliminating eye problems. That was not on her agenda either! Please try to see things from our point of view. We feel that our breed is being treated unfairly. They are wonderful little dogs. It is also worth noting that the top three illnesses claimed for on pet insurance do not include either SM or MVD! Many of us spend 100's of pounds health testing our dogs and yes ….we can still win in the show ring! We need to stop the indiscriminate breeding of dogs of any breed by unscupulous people!

    • Nessie Logan

      December 14, 2008 at 9:51 am

      I agree, more could be acomplished if energies were directed into stoping indiscriminate breeding of dogs of any breed ,by unscupulous people, instead of persecuting those who are already trying to do their best.
      Nessie

  39. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 8:24 am

    it is also clear to me by some of the comments on this list that ryans reporting is biased otherwise readers would know of the vast amount of money spent on health issues which he chooses not to state. well done ryan you are helping to destroy one of the nicest family pets there is and encouraging puppy farmers to prevail because if there are no caring breeders left where will the public go, why don't you report fairly?

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 14, 2008 at 11:08 am

      I am biased. Don't deny it. I'm biased toward dog health and biased against misguided egotists who have their priorities out of kilter. If running a story about £8k trying to be raised for PR and highlighting the background to the whole affair is "helping to destroy a breed" it absolutely, 100% proves to me that I'm right – there are INDEED people who have got NO sense of perspective. Any 'destroying' of any breeds is happening much closer to home. I personally own a breed which has been added to the KC's 'at risk' health list and has been FAR more demonised by the media than Cavaliers have. A breed can only be 'destroyed' by those who are involved in the governance, ownership, production and supply of it.

  40. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 9:49 am

    100 st bernards rescued by rspca i agree there are some sharks out there, but tell me john how many puppy farms have been raided with equal numbers and how many times, why do they not close these farms down?

  41. John Lilburne

    December 14, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Bet, possibly by the CKCS club being more open and not embarking on a purge of those who tried to do something, (Margaret Carter to name one). What needs to be remembered is that there are sensationalist newspaper headlines everyday, that readers may think 'yeah course it doesnt' and they move on to the next story! Check the Daily Mail for ongoing sensationalist stories and you will realise that EXPLODING BRAINS is par for the course. Has anybody posted on here that Cavaliers brains explode, Bet what you need to ask yourself is who is the public fury directed against, mainly the KC for doing nothing and being arrogant, then perhaps the Ridgeback lady who on camera said she had to find an old school vet to euthanase her ridgeless Ridgebacks and the lady who continued to breed from her champion Cavalier knowing full well it had SM. I see CKCS in the street every day and I think cute dogs, not 'oh my God, their brains are going to explode' The £8K would be better spent on health research rather than going in to the pocket of a PR guru, why does the CKCS Club not ask the KC Press Office to help, they have opinions on everything else?

  42. Georgio

    December 14, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Well if "admit" is too strong for you then we will substitute it with agree and I stand by what I said earlier. there seems to be a reluctance on the part of the media to give balanced reporting. THe Cavalier Club, supported by the regional Clubs, have for over 20 years been involved in health initiatives including SM as mentioned by Folly and Fairplay -the Clubs don't deserve plaudits for doing it as we OWE it to the breed, but at least it deserves recognition and not simply be airbrushed out.

    I will continue to enjoy my Cavaliers whose devotion is unconditional including a 12 1/2 Champion who I could barely keep up with walking in the woods today along with several other "oldies"

  43. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 11:35 am

    ryan you state your breed has been demonised far more than the cavalier is it a case then to deflect the attention away from your own breed or the case of misery loves company? which is why you refuse to even mention the positives of what breeders are doing or maybe in your breed no one is taking any measures at all?

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 14, 2008 at 11:41 am

      Deflect attention? Laughable. I am proud of my breed and proud of the fact that there are people involved in the breed who are working for the betterment of it in terms of health i.e. by looking to the continent where Rottweilers are far healthier. If there were people in MY breed behaving the way many of those in the CKCS behaved on PDE and subsequently, I'd be embarrassed by them and their egotistical, misguided, schoolyard behaviour. Even the KC condemned the CKCS club for expelling Margaret Carter from their committee – so that shows how low the politics of personality is prepared to stoop within the breed. Shameful really.

  44. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 11:41 am

    the cavalier club has nothing to do with the so called pr guru and as yet it hasn't even been decided as usual this again an example of media gun jumping!!!

  45. Ryan O'Meara

    December 14, 2008 at 11:46 am

    So? It was the Cavalier Club who outed Margaret Carter – perhaps if they HADN'T the need for positive PR wouldn't be quite so urgent. No PR professional would have recommended the kicking off of a committed health campaigner from a breed committee – so the Cavalier Club has, 100%, played its part in bringing the breed in to dispute. Perhaps if THEY weren't so quick to jump the gun and kick off someone Margaret's calibre, there wouldn't be quite so much heat from the media.

  46. folly

    December 14, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    as you are proud of people working in your breed why will you not then afford us the same consideration? who are the many people on pde that YOU consider have the attitudes stated in your last before one post?
    i still would like an answer to the question i posed to you earlier ,other than the recent health issues what else is wrong with the sweet natured fun loving cavalier that you keep up this relentless condemnation of them? by the way the ckcs club did not vote mc off it was the members. the same members who supported and acknowledged all the good work she has done for the breed in the PAST. on pde as i'm sure you are aware the FEW people interviewed had their full comments edited as to give the desired effect. by the way there was over 500 people there and none of the people that do mri scan with clear dogs[including the breed record holder] were interviewed and shown.

  47. Cassandra

    December 15, 2008 at 2:11 am

    Who does this £8,000 benefit?
    Breeder's best interests are not always those of their dogs.

    This money will not help even one cavalier to have a life free from Syringomyelia or Mitral Valve Disease.
    Nor will it help in any way to give the Breed a healthier future.

    Just £3,500 of this money would pay for the new research project, collecting cell tissue from spinal cords (SM) heart valves (MVD) and pancreas.

    Margaret Carter

  48. Aileen

    December 15, 2008 at 6:39 am

    I dont have a hatred for most of the breedres of cavaliers
    I now take on rescue cavaliers but I knew 2 breeders the first one sold me a very ill little dog and I will never have one of her dogs or puppys that she did breed and still does
    The second one is a very nice person and did do all the test to put my mind at ease
    But there are a lot of breeders who do not do any test
    —-Aileen

  49. John Lilburne

    December 15, 2008 at 7:23 am

    Folly, thanks for your input, please do not tar me as a person who hates Cavaliers as I do not and have never done so (see this thread for such anti Cavalier comment). Unfortunately for Cavaliers due to certain reporting along the lines of 'exploding brains' etc, Cavaliers are now in a similar position as Staffordshire Bull Terriers and other breeds that are wrongly demonised usually by the red top press as devil dogs etc. I believe that the reporting here on K9 Magazine has not done anything but highlight information from in front of and from behind the scenes, why is that so wrong? The CKCS Club is supposed to be sorting things out, SBT and other breeds have been through the mill from politicians and misguided media, so I do not think that Cavaliers will be disappearing? Now that things are out in the open so to speak, surely the health and welfare of all Cavaliers will be improving?

  50. John Lilburne

    December 15, 2008 at 7:27 am

    Folly, by anti-Cavalier comment, I meant the comment from Bet Hargreaves who wrote:

    'Is it too late though ,there now seems to be such a Bitter Vindictive Hatred for Cavalier Breeders'

    Vindicitive Hatred?

    Surely we are all dog lovers otherwise nobody would give a fig about SM?

  51. folly

    December 15, 2008 at 7:36 am

    ryan will not admit that for some reason he wants to be mc's knight and refuses to admit to the good work already being done, he says he's not condemning cavaliers so perhaps we will see some more balanced reporting. It puzzles me somewhat as his breed has been at the brunt of witch hunt reporting that he feels it's ok to do it to ours.

  52. folly

    December 15, 2008 at 7:37 am

    i would like to ask him{if he replies} tell us what the answer is to our problem

  53. folly

    December 15, 2008 at 8:43 am

    ryan i suggest you read again the piecee at the start of this debate that was written by you where you state that if we hear some unusually positive reports on the cavalier we know it's from a pr co. if that isn't a condemning statement i don't know what is. Why should the cav not have any positive coverage?

  54. Nessie Logan

    December 15, 2008 at 9:18 am

    Can I ask Margaret Carter a similar question to the one she asked "Who does this £8,000 benefit?"
    Who will the biased TV programme and similar articles appearing in Newspapers benefit, will they in any way help even one cavalier to have a life free from Syringomyelia or Mitral Valve Disease?
    I do feel that if a more balance picture had been presented that goal may well have been achieved.
    Margaret I feel that if you had the best interest of the cavalier at heart you would try to put the record straight.
    Nessie Logan

  55. Bet Hargreaves

    December 15, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Now we can see the Vindictive Hatred some Folk have for Cavalier Breeders .

    This is what the Cavalier World is also fighting !!!

    The Press ,The Vicious ,Twisted ,Bitter Feelings of some against The Cavalier Breeders.

    NO Wonder PR HELP IS NEEDED

  56. folly

    December 16, 2008 at 7:18 am

    john i agree with alot of what you have said the trouble these days is public opinion has a lot of clout and it is driven by media coverage unfortunately, but i hope with all the work that is being done that you are correct and the cavalier will prevail in it's present form. i am pleased that you appreciate our lovely breed. hopefully with all that breeders an the clubs are doing the breed will be in a better position and of course til puppy farming is outlawed their illnesses will be counted in our statistics and dragging us down.

  57. folly

    December 16, 2008 at 7:52 am

    you asked me what i thought was so wrong with the reporting the answer to that is not a penny has been spent on a pr company and maybe it never will be. so to report it as a 'done deal' seems to me misleading.

  58. renatab

    December 16, 2008 at 8:57 am

    Ryan. Why has MC been elevated to almost Sainthood in the media without anyone questioning her motives? Mother theresa? Snow White? I don't think so. Why is it do you think her fellow breeders have little respect for her? And I dont mean since the programme was received. Are you at all interested? Renata

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 16, 2008 at 9:06 am

      Why is it her fellow breeders have little respect for her? Well, I can only speak as I find and use the evidence of my eyes as to how some of her 'fellow breeders' behave in general. And here's my theory – stand by: It's because they're cockwombles. Clowns, without the shoes and the 'funny'. That's what I think.

      • renatab

        December 16, 2008 at 9:26 am

        Cockwombles. Are they on Wimbledon Common? You will have to explain that one!! It has gone over my head. Tell us about the evidence of how her fellow breeders behave? Renata

  59. folly

    December 16, 2008 at 9:19 am

    ryan and you wonder why cav people think you're condemning!!

    • folly

      December 16, 2008 at 9:23 am

      ryan how many of these 'breeders' do you personally know?

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 16, 2008 at 9:36 am

      No. I don't wonder. Don't care either. That may have escaped your notice. If I cared what people thought, I would hardly open my mouth. But, luckily for me, I don't care what people think – never have, never will. I will say things as I see them and as I see it right now 'cav people' are being done a disservice by some of the stuff that's being written here by people who are supposed to care about the breed but in reality – they're more consumed by 'what people might think'. Here's a tip, forget bothering about 'what people might think' and stressing about PR and instead get back to the basics of fixing the problems within your breed – one of which, it has now become apparent, is some of the 'personalities' who seem to be attracted to Cavs. For the record, I love the breed – was going to get one once, but – and here's the irony – the breeder I spoke to was a cockwomble, so I went for a totally different breed.

  60. Bet Hargreaves

    December 16, 2008 at 9:34 am

    Ryan,
    Why have you such a Vindictive Hatred towards Cavalier Breeders and the Breed.

    Just one Question ,DO YOU WISH TO SEE THE END OF THE CAVALIER BREED,

    IS THE CAVALIER BREED THE FIRST TO BE BEING PICKED OFF

    WHAT BREED WILL BE NEXT ????

    Bet Hargreaves

  61. Ryan O'Meara

    December 16, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Bet, I'm afraid you're starting to sound like a ranting maniac. Seriously, take a deep breathe and direct your energies in to something positive rather than running your yap and subsequently damaging the reputation even further of people within your breed – I am sure there are Cavalier lovers who cringe when you post comments like this, it does you no favours. I shan't dignify your questions with a response because they are the ramblings of someone – clearly – who is either very tired and emotional or who is lacking an ability to read what has actually been written here. Do your breed a favour, stop whining and start doing. You wouldn't need PR help then.

  62. renatab

    December 16, 2008 at 9:58 am

    So that's what the C in C-fidos stands for! Renata

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 16, 2008 at 10:04 am

      That would be 'Coalition' – why?

  63. Bet Hargreaves

    December 16, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    Ryan .

    OH Dearie Me ,Have I struck a Raw Nerve !!!

    Did you not read the Article in Dog World a few weeks ago by Andrew Brace,about folk who hated Pedigree Dogs or had Animal Rights interests .not my words but his

    Seriously ,Ryan ,do you or dont you have a Vindictive Hatred against the Cavalier World ??

    To John ,do you not realize that SM is NOT CONFINED to the CAVALIER BREED ,it is known as a SMALL BREED DISEASE,this comment was made by Dr D Marino ,Neurologist ,Chief of Staff ,at LIVS ,America

    Or have you just been Brain -Washed by the RYAN's of this World ?

    Bet Hargreaves

    • Pauline Persson

      December 16, 2008 at 5:19 am

      Bet said, "Did you not read the Article in Dog World a few weeks ago by Andrew Brace,about folk who hated Pedigree Dogs or had Animal Rights interests .not my words but his"

      But this be the same Andrew Brace who said, "Pursuing health at the loss of breed type may be a dangerous road to tread."

    • Ryan O'Meara

      December 16, 2008 at 12:26 pm

      *sigh* – No Bet, you haven't hit a 'nerve'. I feel sorry for your breed. I feel sorry for any dog who's health is in the hands of people with bizarre personality traits who are consumed with a weird sense of paranoia rather than being consumed with a sense of what's right and what's – very plainly – wrong. So I would plead with you once more to get down from your cross, get your priorities in focus and quit adding insult to injury on behalf of the good CKCS people who do not wish to be 'represented' or viewed in the light in which you project yourself. Your breed is in need of help and you, sadly, 'aint helping'. The PR bill is going to be through the roof unless you can restrain yourself.

  64. Bet Hargreaves

    December 17, 2008 at 3:50 am

    Can I also ask Margaret Carter why does she never mention the Name of Tuppence and all the other Long Lived Cavaliers.

    Why does she not mention to the Public that there are many Cavaliers who can and do live to a Normal Old Age

    By the way Ryan ,if you would like a List of some of them ,instead of having to vist the Kennel Club Library
    just let me know and I can put as many as you want on your List

    Bet Hargreaves

  65. Bet Hargreaves

    December 17, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Yes Ryan,

    Why dont you ever mention about TUPPENCE ,who lived to 19-years -4 months -3 weeks ,her litter Sister ,Penny ,lived to 17 and a half years .

    Or that I have around 2,000 Ages of Cavaliers who have lived upwards of 12 years ,along with the names of many of their Sires and Dams who have lived to this age as well This List ,if you would like to see it , is held at the Kennel Club Library ,but maybe this type of information is not on your Agenda

    Bet Hargreaves

  66. John Robinson

    December 22, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Money spent on PR can only reduce available funds for health programs. In so doing it prioritises image above welfare and reveals which of these concerns lies closest to the heart of those involved.

  67. Sam Pagano

    January 4, 2009 at 3:41 am

    this is nuts, no one hates cavs, its impossible, whats wrong with this situation as with most situations, is that there is little understanding on both parties parts. i say understanding in the manner of knowing how the other party views the situation. Bet i have read you article on SM and read many of you comments on both this forum and Dog World, the point i believe you trying to make is not ALL cavs are affected by SM, this is true, but presenting your argument as if every who supports testing is out to destroy the breed is not correct either, this is simply not true, and yes there are many breeders who do follow the protocols and are working for the betterment of the breed. as you like to say there are two sides to every story, so with that in mind you have to admit there are breeders who dont care/ dont want to admit that SM is a prevalent issue in the Cavalier community. health testing is only beneficial to the breed, and i am more than aware of the issues associated with anesthesia or sedatives with cavs, but on that point any cav with a severe enough heart murmur to be put at risk by either of these options should not be bread in my opinion, and i am fully aware of the case of the 9 month old pup who died pre-MRI. but you must admit that there is benefit from theses test, mind you this is not a personal attack your just one of the more prevalent figures in these online discussions. now for Ryan, i have read many news articles on the subject of SM in Cavs and it is rather disturbing to read that your pets brain will explode, now i know you yourself never said that but i will provide a link to another article that has it directly in the title, since you seem to be big on having things directly presented to you http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10…. and i agree with you, this 8k could be much better spent on testing but you must admit that the media is painting a rather grim picture of the breed, now this is not directly done by saying "Cavaliers are all sick and no one should buy them" but indirectly by attack the heads of the cavalier community. instead of pointing all the flaws in breeders and the upper levels of Cavalierdom, you could present people with prevalent information to ask breeders before they make the choice of adopting a puppy from a particular breeder, this in parallel with the information now know about SM would be a far better tactic to
    A.) Get more support for health testing, and better the breed and have it return to a much healthier state
    B.) discourage people from buying from potential back yard breeders, puppy mills, pet stores, and brokers.
    C.) force more breeders to get their dogs health tested so they can in turn have a better chance of selling their pups

    All it comes down to is that people need to stop being so partisan on the topic of SM, yes it exists and down playing its presence serves no benefit, and flooding the public with articles that point fingers and do not present them with the relevant info on how they them selves can protect their families from getting a pup that will suffer is not effective either. please i implore everyone associated with this breed to realize that we all say and do the these things for the love of Cavaliers, their is not a person on this planet minus mills, brokers, and some BYBs that hate cavaliers. Let us all take a lesson from our beloved Cavies, love everyone, no matter who they are and what they think because thoughts and words are the foundation of division, but love and understanding are the pillars that bridge the gaps and bring the world together.

    Thank you,
    Sam Pagano

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